View Full Version : X Craft Midget Submarines wrecks
alexmaclennan
17-03-07, 13:17
During WW2, the X Craft midget submarine training took place around Port Bannatyne in Bute and Loch Striven - called respectively HMS Varbel and HMS Varbel II. Does anyone know of any X Craft wrecks that have been found or dived? I imagine a number of these craft were lost, not just the XE11 tragedy described in the following article.
http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/XCraft
There is a good description of 2 such wrecks that you can walk to at low tide at Aberlady Bay
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/fyca/Publications/CruisingGuide/cruisingp5.htm
alex
I used to play on these wrecks when I was a kid.
Mr Flibble
18-03-07, 18:28
I used to play on these wrecks when I was a kid.
I didn't know they had midget subs in the nineteenth century.................ok I'll get ma coat.
:D :D Were you & Davie diving today? I was diving until my mate told me he had Chickenpox:D :
Mr Flibble
19-03-07, 12:30
Naw it was my weekend off doing stuff in the house. Weather was crap anyway.
I will need to bung new roofing felt on my garage sometime during the week.
Just as an aside here is a photo of X24 in Bute in 1944 after returning from attacking the docks at Bergen.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/snash_photo/xtype24.jpg
As divers, we should thank Lnt Shean, the commander of X24, as on one of theses raids he hit the Barenfels, which now lies outside Bergen harbour and is often used as the check out dive on dive trips that the Jane R and Gaelic Rose run in Norway.
The photo is a photo of a photo (if you see what I mean :) ) which is in the Duxford Aircraft Museum near Cambridge. I beleive the actual X24 is now in the submarine museum down in Gosport.
Cheers
Snash
Excellent stuff :)
I notice that she was flying her Jolly Roger: denoting a successful sortie.
Excellent stuff :)
I notice that she was flying her Jolly Roger: denoting a successful sortie.
Yeah, I read somewhere that British submariners during WW2 used to fly the Jolly Roger with tallys marked on it for ships sunk....
Similar to the Uboat chaps flying the pennants showing the gross tonnage sunk on their patrols.
gogs
TheMacallan
17-05-07, 19:51
.....they also flew that flag when the sank the General Belgrano in the Falklands War. I think it upset a few people then.
.....they also flew that flag when the sank the General Belgrano in the Falklands War. I think it upset a few people then.
Don't know why mind you... it was done during the last (big) war when the submariners were sinking German merchantmen, and similar (as has already been mentioned) by the U-Boats when they sunk ours.
Had I been involved in the being sunk end of things I should think I would have more pressing matters to concern me than what pennants the victorious sub flew on her return to port :confused:
War is a non "pc" pursuit... some journalists would do well to remember that before passing judgement on the actions of the participants (subject to their actions being within the Geneva convention/rules of war).:mad:
(Steps off soapbox.... ;) )
[quote=Smudge;7896](subject to their actions being within the Geneva convention/rules of war).quote]
only applies if you loose said war.....
lol, I'm staying away from that soapbox ;) :p especially the bit about making the laws after the event then prosecuting people with them :eek:
Anyone who doesn't know what I mean can buy me a beer and I'll explain why some of the good guys weren't as good as they were painted... :(
just another photo of X24 giving the scale of her and also more detail on the Jolly Roger including what looks like a "kill" record. This one was shot off Shetland in April 44. Brave guys, very brave - wouldnt like to have been cooped up in one of those....
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/snash_photo/Xtype243.jpg
If you look cloesly you can see the outline of short baldy bloke taking a photo of the photo - thats me! :rolleyes:
Snash
alexmaclennan
17-05-07, 21:47
.....they also flew that flag when the sank the General Belgrano in the Falklands War. I think it upset a few people then.
I read or was told that the Belgrano was sunk by a Mark 8 torpedo - the same type as was fired on the Loch Long range and manufactured at either the torpedo works in the old Argyll Motor Works in Alexandria or the factory in Greenock.
Not sure if its true tho'
alex
During WW2, the X Craft midget submarine training took place around Port Bannatyne in Bute and Loch Striven - called respectively HMS Varbel and HMS Varbel II. Does anyone know of any X Craft wrecks that have been found or dived?
Hi Alex.
I haved dived a small wreck in Loch Striven. Apparently Loch Striven was used as a testing ground by the navy during WW2. At the end of the war unsuccsefull designs where scuttled in the Loch, apparently along with many other unwanted military hardware.
The wreck I've been on is a small boat or sub. Looking at he pictures posted it wouldn't be far off the size and shape of the X Craft.
The site is at Brackley Point on the East coast of the Loch. Being really anal I have the grid ref in my log book: Sheet 63 NS091739 (this is brackley point not the wreck)
I first came across it at 10-11m on a normal tide and at 6m on a spring low.
There is a dirt road leading down to the bay which we normally use for parking. I got a bearing of 210 from the wreck to the end of this dirt road. It should be pretty easy to find if you go in either side of this bearing, probably to the left of it at higher tide, go down the slope to 10m then hang a right. You should come across it.
Got me wondering now. I'll need to give it more attention next time.
I've attached a pic from the wreck. It doesn't show much and it's out of focus....
Scott.
.....they also flew that flag when the sank the General Belgrano in the Falklands War. I think it upset a few people then.
A bit of an understatement
Nederlander
24-06-07, 17:42
The wrecks around Brackleymore Point are well documented and are NOT X-craft. The wreck described above is a de-gaussing barge which was used to magnetise warships to help repel german mines which used magnetic reed switches to operate the detonator/fuse.
The one regthing describes is the 'main' one which is located straight in the middle of the point at around 11m. Off to its left is another one in about 22m but its a wee bit harder to find as the topography underwater is a bit disorientating and slopes away at an odd angle to the shoreline. On the opposite side of the point is the remains of a small MTB ,although well broken up, a good dive down to 25m where it peters out.
This is the same kind of boat that was discovered recently just slightly north of the point and now reguarly dived by all.
On the opposite side of the loch and slightly lower down than Brackley is a crackin wee wreck in about 28m of water-looks to me like a wee trawler or something. I dived it a few years ago but havent been back since then,mainly due to the hellish drive to get there.... :(
Last time a few of ma mates tried to dive it,they came across the remains of that wee lassie who died at Brackley 10 odd years ago.... Not Nice.
If X-Craft is yer bag ,then I think the area straight out from Brackley is the place as its marked on the charts as 'Experimental Area'. I also think that there are some more suprises to be found in Loch Striven. Loch Goil also has areas marked as the same and it has a degaussing barge lying almost at its mouth so I think it fair to assume that they were up to the same naughtiness here as at Loch Striven....
The bad points??? Fookin' deep water!! Loch Striven has weird currents and can be really dark sometimes. I personally encountered a hellish current when diving the MTB (the far away one!!) and was shi#ting maself swimming up the shotline at 44m while fleein' round the rope.The charts show an average depth in the middle of the Loch as 66m and the area which is marked off in Loch Goil has a least depth of 115m :eek:
One for the tekkies or madmen on the mixed gases me thinks....
If anyone tries it.... Let me know how you get on....:D
I read or was told that the Belgrano was sunk by a Mark 8 torpedo - the same type as was fired on the Loch Long range and manufactured at either the torpedo works in the old Argyll Motor Works in Alexandria or the factory in Greenock.
Not sure if its true tho'
alex
Yep it is true the belgrano was sunk by wwII torpedo