View Full Version : Pony Rig
Hey all,
I have just purchased all the kit I think I need for a pony setup, over 100 dives and I have decided I now would like to dive with a pony. Bought a 3 litre cylinder, reg to match my existing regs and pressure gauge (not the button type!) and a N-diver QR clamp. Now the question I have is how is the best method to rig this up and where do I store the second stage from the pony and do you still keep an octopus from the main rig, both second stages on the same side??, etc,etc.
Some photos of other peoples set up would be nice to compare to.
Chris
I have my pony rigged on my left - the same side as my octopus hose. You should keep your octopus on your main air cylinder, even though you are carrying a pony.
Currently my pony reg and gauge is attached across my front to the buckle on the end of the shoulder strap on the right hand side of my BCD.
My octopus is attached on the left hand side buckle, along with the main gauge. It's important to be able to differentiate between the two sets - for me, octopus is colour coded yellow, pony pink. (my main reg is blue).
my pony sits to the right of my main cylinder. I route the hose over the top of my main tin and the under my left shoulder, across my chest and into a clip on the right hand shoulder strap of my BC so it sits near the front of my right shoulder.
Lizardland
06-03-07, 15:03
When I used to dive with a pony I kept it for my own use. I had a couple of loops of bungee round it with the reg hose tucked away in it. If I needed it then I could just reach round, grab it and pull it free. If my buddy needed air then he got the octopus off the main cylinder as the pony was kept out of reach.
I never liked diving with a pony though. I guess you don't want to hear flog it all and get a pair of twin 7's :)
Cheers,
Stuart
I also mount the pony with a ND clamp to the right of my main cylinder. Hose under right arm & DV clipped onto D-ring with gauge.
I understand why you bought the same reg as your main one: to make sure that your bail-out system was of a high standard. As Claire stated, it's essential to be able to differentiate between your primary & pony DV. There are tales of fatalities where divers have erroneously breathed their pony dry thinking that they had their primary DV in mouth. Then spit out that reg, look for the pony reg & find it's empty. Then dart for the surface with a full cylinder on the back. Nasty scenario. I have a different mouthpiece on my pony reg from my main reg (comfo-bite vs. standard) so that it's very obvious which one I have in my mouth. Colour coding also works as long as you're vigilant about it.
Another option would be to bungee the pony DV around your neck. You probably don't want your buddy breathing off you pony in an OOA situation anyway, so it keeps it close to where you'd want it.
Saying all of that, my wife now uses my pony (after reading Shadow Divers, The Last Dive, Deep Descent, Diver Down etc.) & I've switched my standard gear to twin indie 12s. :eek:
Yes to an Octopus, pony is for your bailout not for alternate air supply for when your buddy runs out. Put the reg somewhere where you are not gonna get confused with your main 2nd stage, even better have a different 2nd stage so there is no confusion.
Personally i found side slinging my pony more comfortable than side mounting it on my cylinder. Made a side slinging kit up for lesss than a tenner.
Colour coding also works as long as you're vigilant about it.
Or are not colour blind..........hi gas guzzler!
I think that you made a good choice with the ND clamp. I always found that easy to attach/detach and it held the cylinder firmly without any chance of movement. I also never noticed any imbalance in the water. Only imbalance could be in trying to sit the rig on the ground to don it, when it tends to fall to one side unless some kind sole steadies it for you.
I can see the appeal of a side sling mounting especially if boat diving, but I never particularly fancied it swinging about on my habitual long walks to the shore from the car. Side slinging would also allow you to pass the rig to a buddy I guess.
scuba-bhoy
06-03-07, 17:51
like most of you i also rig my pony on the right of my main tank feed under right arm and have a longer yellow hose fitted another thing with my set up is that my dry suit feed comes off my main tank but i feed my bc of my pony so so that if the main first stage goes totaly then i have some sort of boyancy
Thanks for all this, a few interesting options, I was aiming for right hand side of tank and then under the arm and clipped to a d-ring.
I have distinguished the different second stages by way of
main - silver with comfibite
Octo - yellow standard mouthpeice
Pony - black with standard mouthpeice
All are Posieden Jetstream so can work either way.
I might take a photo once I have it rigged up and people can point and laugh :)
Thanks again!
alexmaclennan
06-03-07, 19:18
Main Tank 12 or 15l 232 bar with A clamp. Regset old style fan front Mares Abyss. 6' primary hose and standard length yellow hose to octopus under Right shoulder. Gauges and Drysuit feed under Left shoulder.
Pony 3l 232 bar with A clamp. Apeks DST with Apeks Sentinental bungeed round my neck over left shoulder. BCD Feed over left shoulder. Button Gauge.
Pony mounted to my LHS of main tank with 2 Apeks pony mounting straps.
Just fettling an inverted twinset of 300 bar 7s to replace above for shore diving.
alex
when i dived with a pony, i had one reg on my main & one on my pony.
if the main failed, then i was aborting the dive on the bail-out.
rightly or wrongly, this was my set-up.
one key difference that no-one has mentioned & isnt generally standard practice.
i fed my suit from my main cylinder & i also had a LP feed from my pony to my bcd.
this gave me 2 x redundancy on inflation.
should you rig both to your main cylinder & you have a problem with that cylinder, how would you ascend on 3 litres in a stress breathing situation??
oral inflation = extra task loading.
my 2 bobs worth...
100 dives...hmm, surprised your not thinking about a twin set :D
i was contemplating twin 7s but too much expense all at once. Reckon my BC could take it however would prefer a wing. I now have two matching regs, but I am reasonably happy with my 300bar 12l and 232bar 12l for second dive if I use more than 200bar of the 300 on first dive. Generally I can get two dives out of the 300bar on nitrox32, with the 232 for a third if I am feeling like it, but sometimes I just go for a longer first dive, especially now that I am using nitrox on most dives.
If I go back to air and start going deeper then would definately consider twins, either 7s at 300bar or 10s at 300bar, but for now happy with my set-up for the type of diving I do.
Thanks again for all the tips and advice, wont have it rigged for tomorrows dive but will need to plan one soon to try it out!
300 bar twin 7's have less volume of gas than 232 bar twin 10's.
2x7x300 = 4200 2x10x232 = 4640.
300 bar generally = around 270 bar due to gas not being easily compressed above 232 bar so twin 7's x 300 bar = 3780 (approx)
far less than standard 232 bar twin 10's.
so why only consider 300 bar twin 10's ?
if you do (sorry, when you do) venture down the twin-set route, make sure you have spent your time wisely now, calculating your air consumption rate.
working it out now will save you money later...;)
safe diving...
Thanks stewart, I base my gas consumption on what I currently use on typical dives...oh and also from my Suunto Dive manager. Currently it is about 15SLM.
I have never had a problem with air consumption, i.e. either my NDL is reached or buddy or me is feeling cold, I have never ended a dive earlier than planned because I have used all my gas.
Applying this logic led me to the assumption that twin 7s at 300bar is slightly more than my current 12l 300bar, therefore that should be more than enough plus I have heard is a reasonably easy setup to work with. Twin 10s would be quite a bit more than I currently use and unless I plan on doing much deeper dives than I currently do then I dont see the need at present.
My usual dives are no deeper than 30m (except the odd one) and usually for 30-40mins (using a computer or multilevel planning). As stated I currently use Nitrox so well within my my limits.
Thanks for the tips though, its appreciated.
PS
Thoughts on my consumption? I dont think it is too great, but not too shabby either??
Thoughts on my consumption? I dont think it is too great, but not too shabby either??
your SAC rate is fine.
as long as you have enough air to support it is the real key; dive planning.
i only suggest twin 10's being more economical as im sure as you progress you will out-grow your twin 7's.
if/when you start diving 30m+ dives regularly then dive planning has new rules (or should have).
I know someone who shelled out on twin 10's and now regrets not getting 12's as he just has enough let over for a short shallow second dive. 12's are easy in the water and not that bad to carry on your back, for the difference in price. i paid 248 including postage for mine that was o2 clean and manifolded.
I also find than twin 12s aren't as heavy on land as you'd imagine. Even managed down and up the culvert to the Caves in white water conditions with no drama. ;) I don't actually notice a big difference on land between carrying them & a 12L + 3L pony (whereas I did find a perceptible difference moving from a single to the pony rig).
In the water, they're perfectly comfortable. :cool:
This thread seems to be heading off on a tangent... sorry! :eek:
Nah its pretty good all this advice...I suppose you gotta try all the different configurations to see what works. I am slightly put of by twins as its a bit techy for me at the mo. I see myself as an easy recreational diver.
The main reason for getting a pony is that my main buddy now intends to dive with his newly qualified daughter and my thinking is that if I need air, who is he going to save his supply for if the three of us are diving....not me :( so if I have my own independant backup then I dont need to worry!
alexmaclennan
07-03-07, 09:57
1. Poor viz often in Scotland, might 'lose' buddy at the crucial moment.
2. More difficult to coordinate taking octopus with bulky drysuit, thick gloves.
3. Risk of free flow in cold water with the extra strain of two regs working off one first stage.
4. Anyone whose buddy takes photos or video should definitely have a pony as you're often - in essence - diving alone, as your buddy goes off into their own world.
5. Anywhere you might go into a wreck
alex
After being at 30M in loch fyne on sunday on a single 15 i was thinking about a pony and after reading this thread i'm definatly gonna get one.
how does this package look to you guy's?
http://www.kentdiving.co.uk/prod.asp?partno=ScubPonyPack
it's a scubapro reg and my primary one's an apeks so i thought it'd be an idea to get different regs to avoid mixing them up.
Lizardland
07-03-07, 12:00
Twin 7's have the advantage over 10's in that they are longer. 10's don't allow you to sit down in them because they are so short, they make kitting up hard work and I get incredible back pain with them. I don't know anyone that used 300bar 10's for more than a few months after getting them. The weighting of 7's I think is perfect as well, unlike 10/300's which are heavy. I need a fair bit of lead with 10/232's but I'm neutral with 7/300's.
I only use either twin 7's or 12's. I've got a set of 10's which have been used once in the three years they've been sat in the garage. I keep them for decanting gas into my rebreather bottles.
Alex, have you tried the 7's the right way up before you inverted them?
Cheers,
Stuart
alexmaclennan
07-03-07, 12:48
Lizardland,
I went into the pool a couple of weeks ago and found it a real PITA to close down valves & manifold the 'right way up'. I know that maybe it was not well enough setup on my back - I've read your views on this, I am reasonably fit and flexible but it is so much easier to close/open valves & manifold with them inverted. I'm going to back into the pool tonight to try that way (having cobbled together a 140cm LP feed to my wing inflator).
When are you back up north? - we could always meet for a tutorial.
alex
alexmaclennan
07-03-07, 12:50
I also find than twin 12s aren't as heavy on land as you'd imagine. Even managed down and up the culvert to the Caves in white water conditions with no drama. ;) I don't actually notice a big difference on land between carrying them & a 12L + 3L pony (whereas I did find a perceptible difference moving from a single to the pony rig).
In the water, they're perfectly comfortable. :cool:
This thread seems to be heading off on a tangent... sorry! :eek:
I agree that Charlie seems to manage fine out of the water and getting into/ out of the water with the indie 12s
alex
Lizardland
07-03-07, 13:14
Hi Alex,
I'm back up next weekend. I'm out on the Clutha on the Saturday but I'm not sure what I'm doing on the sunday, possibly the Slates or Furnace.
Cheers,
Stuart
After being at 30M in loch fyne on sunday on a single 15 i was thinking about a pony and after reading this thread i'm definatly gonna get one.
how does this package look to you guy's?
http://www.kentdiving.co.uk/prod.asp?partno=ScubPonyPack
it's a scubapro reg and my primary one's an apeks so i thought it'd be an idea to get different regs to avoid mixing them up.
Just PM'd you regarding pony set up.
Gareth
Just PM'd you regarding pony set up.
Gareth
Aww tell us all, is it a pile of poo or can you get it cheaper elsewhere?
how does this package look to you guy's?
http://www.kentdiving.co.uk/prod.asp?partno=ScubPonyPack
it's a scubapro reg and my primary one's an apeks so i thought it'd be an idea to get different regs to avoid mixing them up.
This looks like a good package.
Pretty similar to the pony package that I bought from Deep Blue last year: Faber 3L, Scubapro Mk2+ & R290 (DIN), Suunto SPG, Northern Diver clamp. I found this rig very comfortable to use. As well as having a different mouthpiece, you'll find that these Scubapro regs will probably offer a less smooth breathe than your Apeks ones. In saying that, they're supposed to be very reliable and when I changed to twins I used the Scubapro regs for a few months and had no bother using them at 35m+.
Would it be worth considering upgrading to a ND or Metal Sub clamp though? These are aluminium rather than stainless steel. I've never used a SS pony clamp so can't really comment on them but they don't look as solidly manufactured as the aluminium ones. I don't know how easy they are to attach/detach. Maybe someone else on here can give some feedback. When I bought mine, I looked for advice on Yorkshire Divers. There seemed to be a split between those who advised side-slinging and others who recommended the ND/MS clamps.
Aww tell us all, is it a pile of poo or can you get it cheaper elsewhere?
LOL I've got one in test till Aug 08 that i dont use or think i need anymore. With set of Sherwood regs. That I would be prepared to sell. But as this isnt the for sale thread I pm'd instead.:D
craigdiver
07-03-07, 18:48
how would you ascend on 3 litres in a stress breathing situation??
oral inflation = extra task loading.
my 2 bobs worth...
100 dives...hmm, surprised your not thinking about a twin set :D
drop some weight?
twin-set hmmmmm, dear santa.....!
Craig
drop some weight?
Boyles Law ??
Just my tupenceworth I dont like to have diff makes of regs as they are not interchangable and you need to carry more spares. I put my 2nd stages in diff positions so I know which is which.;)
Most regs nowadays perform well, so I would advise to keep the same type, for me its Apex, simple and reliable no fancy bits to go wrong and like scubapro you can get spares anywhere.
Lizardland
08-03-07, 00:09
I agree with Ding. Keep all the regs the same for the reasons he says. It's better practice to make sure you are on the right reg to start with than to invent fixes for it. Keeping an eye on the SPG will tell you if you are on the right reg or not. It's just as easy to get colour coding wrong, divers have come a cropper because they usually have a certain reg on a certain bottle but just the once they did it different.
I agree as well that Apeks are brilliant regs, reliable and simple. They are part of the Aqualung group so spares should be easy to get. I have a 1st and 2nd stage service kit in my spares kit just in case.
Cheers,
Stuart
dive granny
08-03-07, 22:26
I won a great Apex octopus reg in the Aquatron raffle. lucky me:D
Pony and clamp arrived today and I just thought of another question.... I normally dive Nitrox 32, should I get my pony filled with Nitrox or air?
I am pretty sure I know the answer to this but interested in opinions :)
should I get my pony filled with Nitrox or air?
PPO2 of 32% @ 30m = 1.28
PPO2 of 36% @ 30m = 1.44
PPO2 of 32% @ 40m = 1.6
your choice ;)
Lizardland
09-03-07, 01:22
Pony and clamp arrived today and I just thought of another question.... I normally dive Nitrox 32, should I get my pony filled with Nitrox or air?
I am pretty sure I know the answer to this but interested in opinions :)
I wouldn't bother filling it with nitrox. You are going to be paying to keep a cylinder in O2 test that really isn't going to see any use. How often will you fill the pony? Once a year?
Stick air in it, it won't make any difference to your dive. If you have to switch to your pony then you don't have any time to hang around so what the mix is won't matter. If you are going to have a bit of deco where it might make a difference then a pony isn't the right kit to be diving with.
Cheers,
Stuart
Why only fill it once a year?????????????????
Its a bit of kit to be used if things go belly up, so surely it should be practiced with on a regular basis, so it becomes 2nd nature to locate the 2nd stage get it in yr mouth and start breathing on it.
Lizardland
09-03-07, 11:32
Well, all the more reason for putting air in it :) Why waste money on a nitrox fill for a bit of practice?
I filled my rebreather bailouts (i.e. just glorified pony bottles) three years ago. They've never been touched :) Afterall, it's just pulling a reg out and shoving it in your gob.
Cheers,
Stuart
I wouldn't bother filling it with nitrox. You are going to be paying to keep a cylinder in O2 test that really isn't going to see any use. How often will you fill the pony? Once a year?
Stick air in it, it won't make any difference to your dive. If you have to switch to your pony then you don't have any time to hang around so what the mix is won't matter. If you are going to have a bit of deco where it might make a difference then a pony isn't the right kit to be diving with.
Cheers,
Stuart
I get my cylinders filled at EDC and they blend the nitrox so no need for o2 clean from that point of view, and I agree that you should practice with it, so will be filling it more than once a year!!
Still not sure though.
32% verses 21% wont make a blind bit of difference if your bailing out.
getting to the surface will.
Lizardland
12-03-07, 01:12
32% verses 21% wont make a blind bit of difference if your bailing out.
getting to the surface will.
Absolutely no difference at all unless you are doing longer deco stops, in which case you shouldn't be relying on just a pony anyway.
Is everyone agreed that the Northern Diver clamp is the best?
The view on other forums about the pony regulator is to put an elastic band across the mouth piece, that way you wont get confused.
How much weight do I remove from my weight belt to compensate for the pony?
Is everyone agreed that the Northern Diver clamp is the best?
The view on other forums about the pony regulator is to put an elastic band across the mouth piece, that way you wont get confused.
How much weight do I remove from my weight belt to compensate for the pony?
Whatever the pony and clamp weigh??
Lizardland
12-03-07, 11:05
Whatever the pony and clamp weigh??
Nope.
A pony is about 3.3kg, if you take that amount of lead off your belt then you'll be too light. The volume of water it displaces is more than 3l. Add in the weight of air when full and it's about 200g negative when full and about 500g positive when empty.
I wouldn't take any weight off. When it's full then it isn't that heavy in the water but if you use it then it becomes positively buoyant. In reality, the weight of the reg cancels this out so you can treat the pony as neutrally buoyant. What you may find is that your balance is out underwater.
Cheers,
Stuart
I took a kilo of weight away from my weight belt and put it in my BCD pocket - other side from the pony. I find this makes me evenly balanced underwater.
I bought gareth's one off him and used it on sunday for the first time,i took off 2 kilo's and still felt a tad heavy,it's back mounted and my jacket has 2 trim pockets on the rear which i had a kilo in each,the pony's mounted on the left hand side so i put the 2 kilo's in the right hand pocket,in the water it was fab not lopsided at all.I'll experiment a bit more this weekend.
Remember to set your weight when there is 10 bar in the main cylinder and 10-30 in the pony. If you have to do a stop and you are using the pony your main cylinder is prob empty. So set your weight with as little air in the cylinders as is safe. ;)