View Full Version : KISS Rebreathers
Hi All,
Having done ( a while ago) the Drager Dolphin SCCR course I could see a number of reasons why I might want to use second hand air while I dive, unfortunately no deco and a price tag which is *at least* £1000 over the top of "a bit expensive for what it is" means I haven't bought a Dolphin and wont unless I find a very cheap one.
So I've been looking at CCR's and homebuilds, I know it's wrong and I'll probably go blind but there you go :p
So I wondered, anyone out there in Congerland (tm) diving a rebreather regularly? What type? I'm particularly interested in the KISS rebreather, not tried one or seen one "in the metal" but all teh pics/descriptions etc look good. (also it's closest to a sensible price, diving already makes my bank manager laugh and book exotic holidays!!)
So please comment and tell me why I want one(!) Oh and should I buy a Sport or Classic, and why...
Also, I've seen conflicting reports, can a KISS Sport be "legally" used down to 75/80m? (esp thinking of BSAC Club dives here...)
Finally, I'm guessing (because I don't know) that to calculate your decompression you can use a programme like GAP for deeper dives, or do you have to pay for a VR3 (:eek: ) to get the full benefit?
Cheers,
Smudge
(so many questions, so little clue!)
Well, Ive ticked the KISS Classic, just to get the ball rolling.... I like the look of it. I know the YBOD is the way to go, but it has the huge price tag on it.
If it was me I would start off on the KISS.
'Keep It Simple Smudge'
(c) Gogs 2007
gogs
But why classic and not Sport....? ;)
Besides, the KISS has the advantage of being designed by my namesake so it must be good :p
alexmaclennan
06-02-07, 17:55
Stuart dives a Kiss Classic. I'm sure he'll be along to share his wisdom for you. Checkout both this and Yorkshire-Divers forums for previous posts on Rebreathers/ and the KISS by Lizardland (on this forum) and Not Dead Yet (on YD forum). I like his general rants on YD. He's much better behaved here.
Stuart's website - www.lizardland.co.uk also has stuff on rebreathers.
There may also be stuff on rebreathers on Ding's new website/forum www.finstrokes.com that interests you too.
Finally, you could also checkout www.Rebreatherworld.com
alex
did someone say YBOD??:confused:
the mere mention of it makes me drool !
im thinking evo or inspo (for me) next year.
Lizardland
06-02-07, 23:32
As Alex says, I dive a KISS. I've had one for a couple of years, I absolutely love it. It is a completely different lump to the YBOD, it's much more compact, far easier to dive, much more intuitive and as it's name suggests (Keep It Simple, Stupid) it is very, very simple. Big plus is that there is nothing on it that the user cannot fix himself. You really need to seriously screw it up to have to send it back to the manufacturer. It is completely user serviceable.
Diving it is different, it is completely manual. On the YBOD the computer is contained in the RB, on the KISS it is between your ears. This is no bad thing as every decision is logical.
Some people will say there is extra task loading but it is no different from driving a car. In a car you check your mirrors before you do any manoeuvres, on the KISS you check your handset. Things on rebreathers happen really slow so you always have time to react. If you can cope with a twinset then you can cope with a KISS.
The Sport KISS is (if I remember) limited to 50m. The Classic is rated to 100m (might even be 110m). The Classic scrubber is rated to 3hrs but will do 4-5hrs. The Sport (I think) is 2hrs. I don't like the design of the Sport scrubber, I wouldn't push it much past it's rating. It was designed for holiday diving. The other big difference is in materials, on the Classic each part is machined and the engineering is superb. The Sport is all injection moulded and the quality isn't as good, hence the price. In the end, the Classic works out about the same as the YBOD.
Neither KISS is CE marked (I think the CE approval for rebreathers is all bollocks anyway :) ) which means it can't be sold commercially in the UK or the EU. You buy it from Jetsam direct rather than through an instructor but they send the O2 valve to your instructor so they know you will do the course.
BSAC allows the Classic to be used to 80m on club dives if you are trained (training used to be optional on the KISS). They have a KISS course but I think they also accept IANTD & TDI. As for instructors, Martin Robson is very good.
I'm afraid my website is a bit thin on KISS info, it hasn't been updated for a while. But feel free to ask any questions. As Alex says, Finstrokes has a good range of rebreather users, there are Megs, YBODs, Draegers & KISS users on it. I also did a write up on my KISS for Conger Alley so it will be in the archives somewhere.
I'm thinking about going up the lochs on Sunday if you fancy a go, maybe to Furnace
He's much better behaved here.
It's only because southerners don't know what they are talking about and I have to correct them :D
Cheers,
Stuart
Lizardland
06-02-07, 23:36
Found it, write up is here:
http://www.congeralley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146
IanStevenson
07-02-07, 14:23
I'm thinking about going up the lochs on Sunday if you fancy a go, maybe to Furnace
I'll be at Furnace on SUnday for a BSAC regional training day, so look out for me if you're there (I'm 6'4" and drive a grey audi estate). It would be good to meet some of the CA crowd.
On the other hand, you may prefer to avoid furnace as it might be a bit mobbed.
Ian
Hi Stuart,
Yup, I'd *love* a go! but Sunday is out as I'm committed to visiting a wreck on the Forth (don't know which one yet!).
Maybe sometime in the summer I can meet up with you and have a try out :) (mmm summer, I remember warm.... )
There's no rush though as 1. I'm skint! and 2. I'm not buying (even with credit) for at least a year... I have a cunning plan though involving distant relatives in Canada when the time comes mind you ;)
Something else I was thinking on... I didn't really understand the full pros and cons of a SCCR until I'd done the course and had a range of dives on one. In the same way it seems a bit backwards to rush out and spend x thousand pounds on a diving set and *then* learn to dive it... do you know of anywhere running courses which will rent a rebreather to do the course on? I would far rather get qualified first and then look at buying a set...:confused:
Of course that's probably just me being wierd, but then I'm used to that :D
Thanks for the replies,
All the best,
Smudge
I voted for YBOD because that's the one I'd get, for no other reason than:
a) Ding's still alive after 2 years using one;
b) Personally, I'm always cutting corners and am not an intelligent user (of anything). I much prefer a dive computer which beeps at me when I do something wrong, etc.
But what the hell do i know ...? feck all, is the usual answer :)
I voted for YBOD because that's the one I'd get, for no other reason than:
a) Ding's still alive after 2 years using one;
b) Personally, I'm always cutting corners and am not an intelligent user (of anything). I much prefer a dive computer which beeps at me when I do something wrong, etc.
Well I don't know Ding but I'm erring towards the KISS over the YBOD partly *because* the YBOD does a lot for you... im(v)ho that tempts you to leave everythign to it, like the "I don't need to plan the dive I'll just do it on the computer" mentality that works right up till the point you fail to allow for the amount of gas required....
The fact that you have to monitor and act on the PPO2 readings I reckon is a positive safety item rather than un-necessary task loading. Keeps your mind on the job as it were ;)
Also I like the way it's designed to be user maintained, I work on my own brakes on cars and bikes generally because I've seen some of the abberations that have come out of "professional" workshops after servicing. I'm not paid by the hour and I know when I do it it's done right (or if I cut a corner I know where and what the likely outcome is...)
And of course there's also the argument that you can't find an electronics engineer diving an electronically driven rebreather.... :p
But being serious again, I know very little about the subject and that's why I am asking, thanks for all the replies /input so far, keep them coming!
Smudge
Lizardland
07-02-07, 23:25
That's similar to the reasoning that I went for the KISS too. I know what it is doing because I'm controlling it. What puts me off electronics is that you really don't know what they are doing, it's a big leap of faith.
Knowing that I can fix just about anything with a trip to B&Q, Maplin or Swagelok is very reassuring too. No way would I pay a couple of hundred quid for some of the fixes that YBOD users need.
Cheers,
Stuart