View Full Version : Any diveable Sunderland flying boats?
alexmaclennan
18-11-06, 12:35
I was dogwalking today along the Dumbarton foreshore. There is a plaque to comemorate the Blackburn works that produced Sunderland flying boats during WW2. Are there any sunk Sunderlands that are diveable?
This is a good link that tells you a little about the aircraft
http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/Sunderland.htm
alex
Hi, saw an article in Divernet a while back, sure it was a flying boat i read about. Not sure if it was a Sunderland or not. Think it was off Millport. Try a search on Divernet you should be able to find it ok.
http://www.divernet.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?id=4110§ion=&action=display&show=catalina
Found mention of a Short Sunderlands but it is in Cromarty, Moray Firth.
Could the flying boat off Milport be the Catalina? Some people do confuse Milport with Cumbrae :confused: However, I remember searching for a Sunderland flying near Gourock or Greenock, can't remember which, we never found it of course due to very poor vis or maybe we searched the wrong area as I am sure there is a Sunderland near that area.
alexmaclennan
18-11-06, 14:26
G Ridley mentions on p69 of Dive West Scotland:
Wreck of Sunderland Seaplane NS257780. This lies 0.25 mile north of Ironotter Point in 27m at 55 58 02N, 04 47 52W. There is lots of wreckage lying around with shoals of mullet swimming around it. Visibility from very poor and dark to 20m! Claimed to be a good dive. It is best dived on the flood tide for better visibility.
alex
G Ridley mentions on p69 of Dive West Scotland:
Wreck of Sunderland Seaplane NS257780. This lies 0.25 mile north of Ironotter Point in 27m at 55 58 02N, 04 47 52W. There is lots of wreckage lying around with shoals of mullet swimming around it. Visibility from very poor and dark to 20m! Claimed to be a good dive. It is best dived on the flood tide for better visibility.
alex
Yup, we got the info from Gordon's book too. I don't know anybody who has actually dived this wreck though.
Yup, we got the info from Gordon's book too. I don't know anybody who has actually dived this wreck though.
Some of the dives in this book are at best questionable
Catalina flying boat is a good shore dive along swim to get to depth 20m+ loads of wreckage not a lot left now..
Wings gone some structure left on the sandy bottom viz can be bad and loads of boat traffic (noise)
alexmaclennan
19-11-06, 00:22
Some of the dives in this book are at best questionable
I agree - several dives I've done are completely different to his one or two line descriptions. But it's still better than nowt
alex
I was dogwalking today along the Dumbarton foreshore. There is a plaque to comemorate the Blackburn works that produced Sunderland flying boats during WW2. Are there any sunk Sunderlands that are diveable?
This is a good link that tells you a little about the aircraft
http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/Sunderland.htm
alex
There are a few that are divable. I have been on a quest to find some of them for quite a few years and have the records of many that were scuttled after the war. Loch Ryan has a few in them if you know where to look. At the end of the war it was a storage facility for flying boats and there were at one time over 200 aircraft stored there. I took some video of the one in Pembroke Dock a while back after the Wreck Muppets had been on it for ITV and turned the video into a tribute to the Sunderland crews that were lost during WWII. http://www.divetheworld.com/diving/warbirds/SunderlandT9044/index.htm
A few years ago I was taken to a Sunderland in Loch Ryan that was pretty much intact including guns and engines and I plan to get myself up there with my RIB and sonar tow fish to see if I can relocate it and see if there are any more down there.
I've attached the movement card of a Mk1 Sunderland that was scuttled in Loch Ryan (T9040) and I wonder if this is the one that I was on. I've also attached the movement cards of a Mk2 (W6055) that was also scuttled. You can see quite clearly the word "Scuttled" on both.
Steve
alexmaclennan
28-05-07, 09:18
Thanks for the info Steve, please keep us posted.
alex
Thanks for the info Steve, please keep us posted.
alex
The problem with Loch Ryan is the shipping. I was on that wreck a few years ago and I can't remember how close to the shipping channel it was or how they've enlarged the shipping channel since so the big question is, is it still there?
There are the movement cards of two that were scuttled and I have got the accident record cards of many that were sunk in Loch Ryan due to accidents. There is a Whitley V bomber that ditched in the Loch too. That type doesn't exist in museums and would be a seriously good wreck to find. Everyone got out and the accident was due to poor fuel management on the part of the pilot. There is also an intact Whitley V in Loch Fyne. You have to remember that Scotland was the HQ for all of the Operational Training Units or Tactical Training Units. After learning how to fly their aircraft they went to Scotland to learn how to fight them. During WWII the skys of Scotland were alive with aircraft and most of them trainee crews who were bound to cock it up every now and again. Most hit hillsides but a percentage of them ditched in Lochs. If you were a pilot and in trouble where would you put it down? Most of the terrain was hilly and you really don't want to do a wheels up landing up hill do you. The largest and flatest bits are the Lochs. I've spoken to a lot of pilots in the course of my research and the consensus of opinion is that they would rather do a water landing that land it on the ground. Less chance of a fire for a start.
Anyone dived Loch Ryan?
Anyone want to come with me when I'm doing the scanning?
Steve
never dived loch Ryan, might be interested in tagging along if you were scanning.
would be very interested if you were scanning loch fyne.
even more so that it was used to practice beach landings in WW2.
i have a few areas i would like scanned...;)
Yup, we got the info from Gordon's book too. I don't know anybody who has actually dived this wreck though.
There's (or was) a little hotel across the road from the wreck of the Europa* (not the great big chain one just north of Cloch) I can't remember the name of it at the moment.
The guy who owned it (an ex commercial diver) claimed to have dived this Sunderland and said it was stoorie as anything but intact. That was some years ago.
To be fair to Gordon Ridley, much of his information was second or third hand and he did ask for people to give him updated information as and when it became available. Unfortunately although Gordon may have updated his manuscripts I understand he had some kind of falling out with Bernard Eaton and it was extremely difficult to get the latter volumes of his Dive Scotland series published and second or third editions of the earlier volumes were impossible.
* Does anyone dive the Europa anymore?
The problem with Loch Ryan is the shipping. I was on that wreck a few years ago and I can't remember how close to the shipping channel it was or how they've enlarged the shipping channel since so the big question is, is it still there?
There are the movement cards of two that were scuttled and I have got the accident record cards of many that were sunk in Loch Ryan due to accidents. There is a Whitley V bomber that ditched in the Loch too. That type doesn't exist in museums and would be a seriously good wreck to find. Everyone got out and the accident was due to poor fuel management on the part of the pilot. There is also an intact Whitley V in Loch Fyne. You have to remember that Scotland was the HQ for all of the Operational Training Units or Tactical Training Units. After learning how to fly their aircraft they went to Scotland to learn how to fight them. During WWII the skys of Scotland were alive with aircraft and most of them trainee crews who were bound to cock it up every now and again. Most hit hillsides but a percentage of them ditched in Lochs. If you were a pilot and in trouble where would you put it down? Most of the terrain was hilly and you really don't want to do a wheels up landing up hill do you. The largest and flatest bits are the Lochs. I've spoken to a lot of pilots in the course of my research and the consensus of opinion is that they would rather do a water landing that land it on the ground. Less chance of a fire for a start.
Anyone dived Loch Ryan?
Anyone want to come with me when I'm doing the scanning?
Steve
Id definitely be interested in seeing the scanning being done
There's (or was) a little hotel across the road from the wreck of the Europa* (not the great big chain one just north of Cloch) I can't remember the name of it at the moment.
The guy who owned it (an ex commercial diver) claimed to have dived this Sunderland and said it was stoorie as anything but intact. That was some years ago.
To be fair to Gordon Ridley, much of his information was second or third hand and he did ask for people to give him updated information as and when it became available. Unfortunately although Gordon may have updated his manuscripts I understand he had some kind of falling out with Bernard Eaton and it was extremely difficult to get the latter volumes of his Dive Scotland series published and second or third editions of the earlier volumes were impossible.
* Does anyone dive the Europa anymore?
Searched for it a couple of times - never found anything. :( Bu55ered off and did the Greenock instead.
Pidley's Dive Guides were at the time often the best source of info people had
and as pointed out were dependent on others. What he was good at was encouraging folk to get out there and try new places rather than jsut doing the "same old same old"
Have to say his dive guide to St Kilda has pride of place on my bookshelf. This 50 page guide was published in 1983 when most people had hardly heard of Kilda never mind gone there.
However, a lot of his dives from the guides did end up logged as "Mud Slopes I have Dived Vol 3" in my log books. :D
never dived loch Ryan, might be interested in tagging along if you were scanning.
would be very interested if you were scanning loch fyne.
even more so that it was used to practice beach landings in WW2.
i have a few areas i would like scanned...;)
Hopefully I'm going to be there in October. I'm following up on a story that a minisub went down in Loch Cairnbawn during WWII. The Special Operations Executive (SOE) designed and built a minisub called a Wellman. This sub was a complete dog and was only used once in a raid in Bergen and they lost all four subs. There is one of these subs in the US but none in British museums and I want to find one and see if it's worth bringing it up.
Steve
Could the flying boat off Milport be the Catalina? Some people do confuse Milport with Cumbrae :confused: However, I remember searching for a Sunderland flying near Gourock or Greenock, can't remember which, we never found it of course due to very poor vis or maybe we searched the wrong area as I am sure there is a Sunderland near that area.
The Catalina is near the Ferry slip on Big Cumbrae.
It is also not really regonisable as a plane.
Gary
Hopefully I'm going to be there in October. I'm following up on a story that a minisub went down in Loch Cairnbawn during WWII. The Special Operations Executive (SOE) designed and built a minisub called a Wellman. This sub was a complete dog and was only used once in a raid in Bergen and they lost all four subs. There is one of these subs in the US but none in British museums and I want to find one and see if it's worth bringing it up.
Steve
1943 per chance? think i read about this.
dive granny
29-05-07, 20:48
Millport is the Island town of Great Cumbrae. Some people refer to the Island as Millport;)
Millport is the Island town of Great Cumbrae. Some people refer to the Island as Millport;)
& sometimes better known as 'the pot'
dive granny
29-05-07, 21:43
The Catalina is near the Ferry slip on Big Cumbrae.
It is also not really regonisable as a plane.
Gary
& sometimes better known as 'the pot'
Very true. I visited the Pot doctor in Sharm. He was a BIG bloke. Regaled me with tales of when he lived in Scotland before checking my neuro obs! Luckily I didn't have to go in the pot itself!
Id definitely be interested in seeing the scanning being done
The problem with scanning is that it's boring. It's towing a fish along at three knots and staring at a screen to see what we get. You can spend a week scanning and not even get in a dive so if you want to tag along for that kind of operation then feel free. :D :D :D
The problem with scanning is that it's boring. It's towing a fish along at three knots and staring at a screen to see what we get. You can spend a week scanning and not even get in a dive so if you want to tag along for that kind of operation then feel free. :D :D :D
Be a welcome break from what is looking increasingly likely to be 6 weeks in a compound in Port Harcourt
A friend of mine and I are running a trip to dive some Sunderlands in freshwater that we have found. We also have a statement from an 80 year old guy who scuttled 6 Catalinas in the same lake so we are going up there armed with side scan sonar and look for them. Anyone interested?
Steve
I've always been interested in flying boats and float planes. As a kid I remember visiting Helensburgh and my father pointing to the hangar where the Sunderlands were constructed. I remember thinking how good it would be to see one of them, even a wreck. A few years ago the book Corsairville, the story of a BOAC empire flying boat that ended up stranded in a backwater of the Belgian Congo really took hold of my imagination and rekindled the memories of the Sunderland.
I've been disappointed by the Catalina wreck, so the chance of being involved in the hunt for a Sunderland is something I would like to be involved with.
Loved the video clip you posted: you have a slightly more ambient taste in musical accompaniment than Stewart:D
NB Not better or worse- just different..
Cheers,
Gerry
A friend of mine and I are running a trip to dive some Sunderlands in freshwater that we have found. We also have a statement from an 80 year old guy who scuttled 6 Catalinas in the same lake so we are going up there armed with side scan sonar and look for them. Anyone interested?
SteveWhere abouts then?
Gary
Where abouts then?
Gary
Ireland.
Steve