View Full Version : Incident at Conger Alley
Me and a couple of the guys from my club (Cupar BSAC) were at CA yesterday.There were a group from Splashies in glasgow who had trainees there at the same.
One of the Splashie trainees got into difficulties and had to be rescued, he got into difficulties in about 8 meters and bolted to the surface, he surfaces with breathing difficulties.
A couple of us assisted Splashies in the rescue, getting him on o2 etc etc.
I was wandering if anyone knows how he is getting on or his condition?
gogs
Me and a couple of the guys from my club (Cupar BSAC) were at CA yesterday.There were a group from Splashies in glasgow who had trainees there at the same.
One of the Splashie trainees got into difficulties and had to be rescued, he got into difficulties in about 8 meters and bolted to the surface, he surfaces with breathing difficulties.
A couple of us assisted Splashies in the rescue, getting him on o2 etc etc.
I was wandering if anyone knows how he is getting on or his condition?
gogs
Hope he is ok....
Did u contact the coastguard?
Ive just had a gander on YD:
http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/mca-coastguard-contacting-chambers-info-rnli-forum/30693-hm-coastguard-diving-incidents-2006-a-14.html#post569428
Seems like Clyde CG had a busy day.
The chap at Conger was taken to hospital.
Scuba-Doh!
06-11-06, 11:26
I've not yet heard how David got on at the hospital, I was his buddy at the time and saw the whole thing. We were in 6-8m of water and he was experiencing problems with air trapped in the legs/feet of his suit. As he began ascending he was finning and sculling to stay down but this led to fatigue and probably panic too. When he made it to the surface his legs where still the most bouyant part of him and his upper body was kept below the water, at this point his feet came out of the boot section of his dry suit and his fins were flapping around (eventually one came off). Chris (the third buddy in this dive) made it to the surface and signalled for help while righting David and getting his head out of the water. I had no idea what to do in this situation and didn't want to add myself to the casualty list so I slowly surfaced and followed everyone back to shore. When I had made it to the surface David's head was underwater and the reg out of his mouth (unconsious/not breathing?). On the shore David was put on o2 and the ambulance called. Coastguard and lifeboat arrived shortly after the ambulance. All in all an experience I will not forget and one which urges me further to do the Rescue diver course as I was kicking myself that I hadn't been able to do anything to help. Looked to me that a tuck and roll would have solved the bouyancy issue but I could be over-simplifying matters.
craigdiver
06-11-06, 11:55
I've not yet heard how David got on at the hospital, I was his buddy at the time and saw the whole thing. We were in 6-8m of water and he was experiencing problems with air trapped in the legs/feet of his suit. As he began ascending he was finning and sculling to stay down but this led to fatigue and probably panic too. When he made it to the surface his legs where still the most bouyant part of him and his upper body was kept below the water, at this point his feet came out of the boot section of his dry suit and his fins were flapping around (eventually one came off). Chris (the third buddy in this dive) made it to the surface and signalled for help while righting David and getting his head out of the water. I had no idea what to do in this situation and didn't want to add myself to the casualty list so I slowly surfaced and followed everyone back to shore. When I had made it to the surface David's head was underwater and the reg out of his mouth (unconsious/not breathing?). On the shore David was put on o2 and the ambulance called. Coastguard and lifeboat arrived shortly after the ambulance. All in all an experience I will not forget and one which urges me further to do the Rescue diver course as I was kicking myself that I hadn't been able to do anything to help. Looked to me that a tuck and roll would have solved the bouyancy issue but I could be over-simplifying matters.
Sounds like a serious incident, good luck David, hope you recover ok and get back in the water soon.
CraigDiver
I've not yet heard how David got on at the hospital, I was his buddy at the time and saw the whole thing. We were in 6-8m of water and he was experiencing problems with air trapped in the legs/feet of his suit. As he began ascending he was finning and sculling to stay down but this led to fatigue and probably panic too. When he made it to the surface his legs where still the most bouyant part of him and his upper body was kept below the water, at this point his feet came out of the boot section of his dry suit and his fins were flapping around (eventually one came off). Chris (the third buddy in this dive) made it to the surface and signalled for help while righting David and getting his head out of the water. I had no idea what to do in this situation and didn't want to add myself to the casualty list so I slowly surfaced and followed everyone back to shore. When I had made it to the surface David's head was underwater and the reg out of his mouth (unconsious/not breathing?). On the shore David was put on o2 and the ambulance called. Coastguard and lifeboat arrived shortly after the ambulance. All in all an experience I will not forget and one which urges me further to do the Rescue diver course as I was kicking myself that I hadn't been able to do anything to help. Looked to me that a tuck and roll would have solved the bouyancy issue but I could be over-simplifying matters.
Hi there
I hope David is ok, I was the guy helping you take his kit up to the ambulance (I had the blue/black dry suit and red beannie on).
gogs
Scuba-Doh!
06-11-06, 12:58
Hi there
I hope David is ok, I was the guy helping you take his kit up to the ambulance (I had the blue/black dry suit and red beannie on).
gogs
I'm sure it was said before but a big thanks must go to you and your club for the assistance you provided on Sunday.
I was the wee guy running around trying to be helpful and at the same time trying not to get in the way (black skull/Oakley cap).
I'll try contacting the dive centre again for an update on how David's doing. His daughter was present (and should have been diving with us but her inflation valve was sticking open), she was quite upset by the incident though seemed in much brighter mood later.
I'm sure it was said before but a big thanks must go to you and your club for the assistance you provided on Sunday.
I was the wee guy running around trying to be helpful and at the same time trying not to get in the way (black skull/Oakley cap).
I'll try contacting the dive centre again for an update on how David's doing. His daughter was present (and should have been diving with us but her inflation valve was sticking open), she was quite upset by the incident though seemed in much brighter mood later.
Yeah, my mate Steve who got out to David first reassured her that her dad was going to be ok when he came too and started talking....
I hope things like this dont put you off diving, but if the $hit did hit the fan its good to know that there are folk there who know what to do in these types of situations.
gogs
Oh and dont think that you were in the way either, getting stuff like bottles of water for the casualty is just as important as administering o2.
:D
gogs
Scuba-Doh!
06-11-06, 14:13
I hope things like this dont put you off diving,
Hell no, only makes me want to learn more and know what to do in such a situation. I hope to see David and her daughter back diving again soon, I doubt it'll put them off but you never know.
Nederlander
06-11-06, 15:07
Its not nice to read about anyone getting into 'sheet' when diving.
I hope the guy is ok and it does'nt put him off.
However without being too harsh it makes me wonder if maybe this is the sport for him. It seems to me that too many people get into difficulties during easy dives or let minor problems become major catastrophes. Either they haven't recieved the correct training or are doing dives that they are not ready for or open water diving just isnt for that person.
Either way you have to say that if he has problems with his buoyancy in 8m of water would he really be capable of doing 30 or 50m dives???
We have some real dangerous stretches of water round our coastline and I tend to think that in diving in Scottish waters you only really get one chance to make a mistake.You don't tend to get a second chance.
All said hope he makes a full recovery.
craigdiver
06-11-06, 15:37
Its not nice to read about anyone getting into 'sheet' when diving.
I hope the guy is ok and it does'nt put him off.
However without being too harsh it makes me wonder if maybe this is the sport for him. It seems to me that too many people get into difficulties during easy dives or let minor problems become major catastrophes. Either they haven't recieved the correct training or are doing dives that they are not ready for or open water diving just isnt for that person.
Either way you have to say that if he has problems with his buoyancy in 8m of water would he really be capable of doing 30 or 50m dives???
We have some real dangerous stretches of water round our coastline and I tend to think that in diving in Scottish waters you only really get one chance to make a mistake.You don't tend to get a second chance.
All said hope he makes a full recovery.
IMHO, I do not think comments like this is fair without knowing the facts.
I'm with craig on this one. It's easy for those of us who've been diving with our own kit for years to forget how testing it can be when you're a relative newcomer & have to use unfamiliar kit. We've certainly had trainees in our club who took a while to master their buoyancy or had the odd floaty incident but still turned out to be very proficient divers in the long run. Many experienced divers that I know would admit to having had their own uncontrolled ascents in the (hopefully) distant past (I had mine due to a defective Apeks shoulder auto-dump).
Not sure that I understand the comment about 30-50m dives. Obviously the guy is a trainee so is not even dreaming about dives of that nature at the moment. As we all know, when you're shallower than 10m, it doesn't take long for a minor buoyancy indiscretion to end up as an uncontrolled ascent.
I hope that he makes a full recovery & gets back into enjoying his diving & progressing with his training. Maybe will bump into him at 30m in a couple of years time. :)
I agree with charlie, you dont know how many open water dives the poor guy has done it could of been his first, practising feet up ascents in the relative safety of a clean warm swimming pool compared to an actual one in a cold probably Sh** viz loch is completley different, ( i spent the best part of my first drysuit dive upside down due to an ill fitting suit) the only important thing is he gets better with no long term damage.
Either way you have to say that if he has problems with his buoyancy in 8m of water would he really be capable of doing 30 or 50m dives???.
When it comes to buoyancy the first 10m is the hardest, at 30 to 50m its a lot easier....I said to a trainee who was having problems with buoyancy is like balance very hard to teach, but most of the best cyclists fell of their bikes when they were learning.
Scuba-Doh!
06-11-06, 17:04
Sounds like David is making a good recovery and might be out of hospital tomorrow.
What I said earlier was my account of the incident and it's possible there were other problems which compounded to put David into a panic and caused this incident. I do not know the details of David's previous diving experience save that he's PADI trained Open Water and I dived with him on a previous weekend and he seemed to me pretty competant and level-headed.
As for comments about diving not being his sport I disagree, we all have to start somewhere and I for one was sh*t-scared when I started. It took me a few pool dives before I gained any confidence and I'm glad I managed through as I'm now really enjoying the sport.
Further investigation will be taking place and I shall relay what I can of the findings.
Sounds like David is making a good recovery and might be out of hospital tomorrow.
Thats good to hear, I will pass it on to the rest of the guys in the club who were there yesterday.
ta
gogs
Nederlander
06-11-06, 17:24
I was'nt being snidey or anything like that. While I realise that the guy was probably a novice I was just pointing out that I think in general that over the past few years as diving has become more open and accessible to people of all ages that there has been more silly accidents taking place partly due to the people involved but also down to training or the lack of it. Just in the same way as some people get a car license but are crap at driving and should'nt really be on the road,I think that there are some people who get basic certification and then think they are divers when the reality is they are'nt comfortable in the water and/or do'nt belong there. Some of the training courses are a joke and what about too many trainees to an instructor???
Equipment failure aside we have all had problems under water but where the difference is in the way that you deal with that problem.Being inverted due to trapped air is in itself not that much of a problem but taking your reg out and drinking sea water up's the ante a bit. Is that not a fair comment?
I was'nt there and I'm not saying any of this applies to this particular incident and like I said I hope the guy is ok but I was only looking at the wider issue.
Nederlander,
Your points are certainly worth discussing (IMHO), but maybe not in this thread as they will inevitably be associated with this particular incident.
Please feel free to start another thread in the Main Forum or Training forum etc. Then we could have a good in-depth discussion without it reflecting negatively on any specific individuals.
dive granny
06-11-06, 23:30
I also hope the guy makes a good recovery. I took ages to get my buoyancy sorted and my first o.w. dive was scary, in a suit borrowed on the way to the dive site!!! I also had a rapid ascent from 12m in the Red Sea, none of which has put me off. I'm too stubborn. I'm a lot happier now.
Get better soon LOL D.G.
I was'nt being snidey or anything like that. While I realise that the guy was probably a novice I was just pointing out that I think in general that over the past few years as diving has become more open and accessible to people of all ages that there has been more silly accidents taking place partly due to the people involved but also down to training or the lack of it. Just in the same way as some people get a car license but are crap at driving and should'nt really be on the road,I think that there are some people who get basic certification and then think they are divers when the reality is they are'nt comfortable in the water and/or do'nt belong there. Some of the training courses are a joke and what about too many trainees to an instructor???
Equipment failure aside we have all had problems under water but where the difference is in the way that you deal with that problem.Being inverted due to trapped air is in itself not that much of a problem but taking your reg out and drinking sea water up's the ante a bit. Is that not a fair comment?
I was'nt there and I'm not saying any of this applies to this particular incident and like I said I hope the guy is ok but I was only looking at the wider issue.
I totally disagree
If you look at any graph with the overall increase of dives over the decades in relation to the number a incidents it has gone down in particular with all training agencies upgrading all the time
As for doing an uncontrolled ascent because of a faultly auto dump why didn’t you vent the air through your cuff or neck?????
As for doing an uncontrolled ascent because of a faultly auto dump why didn’t you vent the air through your cuff or neck????? inexperience
Lizardland
07-11-06, 10:51
As for doing an uncontrolled ascent because of a faultly auto dump why didn’t you vent the air through your cuff or neck?????
That's a fairly standard reply to the "what if" question but it isn't as easy as you might think. Most divers have their gloves and hoods over the seal, getting to the neck seal especially isn't always that easy. In a runaway ascent, you need to get in position, peel back whatever is in the way, pull the seal open and dump air from your BCD which will be expanding all whilst hurtling to the surface. The best solution is to not get into the situation in the first place.
If you need to break your neck seal you only really need to get a grab at the front and pull, yank hood suit and all if need be. Or grab front of suit just below the hood and pull out and down. Try it on surface, isn't too difficult to do. Again though, you need presence of mind and a bit of experience to get too it quickly enough.
Hindsight is always 20-20. Hope everything is ok.
If you need to break your neck seal you only really need to get a grab at the front and pull, yank hood suit and all if need be. Or grab front of suit just below the hood and pull out and down. Try it on surface, isn't too difficult to do. Again though, you need presence of mind and a bit of experience to get too it quickly enough.
Hindsight is always 20-20. Hope everything is ok.
I agree. It's not too difficult to flood your suit from the neck seal....just ask gas guzzler.
Nederlander
08-11-06, 00:38
Sharkboy. U totally disagree with me??Well thats your posistion and your entitled to it. I however totally disagree with you. I'e dived with and seen enough halfwits in the water trying to commit hari-kirri to know that your talking bollocks:mad: Standards of diver training is in general crap and there are too many old,unfit and unsuitable people entering the sport when they should'nt be. This has increased in recent years along with peoples increasing wealth and sophistication in their choice of leisure pursuit which when coupled with more reliable kit has allowed 'ordinary' people to do dives that were once the preserve of ultra fit military divers,hence an increase in fatalities and DCS incidents.
As for you pointing out graphs and piecharts-80% of statistics are ambigious and open to interpretation:D
This thread was started by Gogs to find out how the guy from CA was getting on. It's now shifted into a different discussion which is probably best not to be associated with any particular incident or individual.
Therefore, we'll close this particular thread at this point. The last few posts have been copied to a new thread (http://www.congeralley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=463) in the Training section so that the discussion can continue there.