View Full Version : bend
Myself and Craigbrls dived kenmore point yesterday,we had 2 fairly straight forward dives 24M for 59mins with 1hr surface interval and then 29M for 45 mins with text book profiles and safety stops.
On the way home Craig started to show signs of dci i.e sore legs,balance gone,visual disturbance and pins and needles.He went onto O2 in the car on the way home with an improvement in the symptoms.
On reaching my home we called the chamber in Aberdeen for advice,after a lengthy discussion they decided it might be a migraine as Craig's had them before and to monitor himself.
He was aching this morning in his joints etc so back on the phone to chamber,they told him to go to a hospital in dunfermline for assesement,where they have diagnosed a minor bend and migraine but it won't need recompression treatment.Craig asked me to stick this post up and i'm sure he'll add to it when he gets home.
Just goes to show that even doing normal no deco dives your still at risk,the ironic thing is Craig was in his bed at 10pm the night before the dive sober and i got to bed around 4am after a few bevies.
dive safe folks
:( scary, hope he recovers fully and soon. Did they say no diving for a spell? :(
nope im fine will we diving on Friday was scarey like. after speaking to Dr Thomas at Aberdeen Hyperbaric. went to Queen Margret hospital in Dunfermline and Informed them of suspected DCI. 52 mins later:confused: I was seen and sat waiting in cubicle without an O2 for a further 30ish mins. allin all in there 1.5 hours before they confirmed a bend and still no o2. they have givin me great confidence in the health service :eek::eek:
dive granny
04-08-08, 22:20
Glad you are ok. I'm sure there was a discussion on here before about most A& E lack of knowledge in treating suspected DCI. Maybe a mod could find it?
Hope he's ok.
I guess sometimes people get a bend for no noticeable reason - I read about a guy on YD that got bent on the 1st dve of a 10 week tropical trip - now that's unlucky.
Just out of interest, I see you only had a one hour surface interval with a deeper second dive. Now, I'm not criticising because I know that 1 hour is the PADI system and that there is no research to prove that diving reverse profile makes it more likely that a bend will occur but could this make someone more likely to get a bend?
P.S. If someone wants to move this question to another topic, feel free, I just thought Loudy's post was looking for comment on potential reason for the bend.
ospreysfan
04-08-08, 23:23
Hi Claire, it's no longer thought that diving a deeper dive after a shallower one will necessarily increase the chance of DCS.
There is no PADI rule to say that you have to have a 1 hour surface interval, although it will be a common surface interval used though if you have different groups inwater at different times rotating.
Glad to hear you're ok Craig.
Glad to hear you are OK. I suppose there could be all sorts of reasons, such as the migrane bringing it on, or dehydration or even a bug that you haven't noticed!
We will probably never know the real reason for bends like this!
Good to hear you're ok :) Lucky you had your secret brother with you!
Yogi Diver
05-08-08, 00:07
Glad you are ok. I'm sure there was a discussion on here before about most A& E lack of knowledge in treating suspected DCI. Maybe a mod could find it?
Maybe my thread?
http://www.congeralley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2208
I'm really surprised the phone call to the chamber seems to have resulted in a misdiagnosis. Completely b*ggers up my theory.:(
Glad to hear you are OK Craig but maybe you should be checked for a PFO? It is the most common cause of "undeserved" bends.
Bad luck, but glad you are better. :)
alexmaclennan
05-08-08, 05:32
Craig, a worrying time for you. I hope the diagnosis is correct and it was migraine.
Glad to hear you are OK Craig but maybe you should be checked for a PFO? It is the most common cause of "undeserved" bends.
Yogi is correct about consider looking for a PFO. There is thought to be a tie up with PFOs and Migraines too.
Just out of interest, I see you only had a one hour surface interval with a deeper second dive. Now, I'm not criticising because I know that 1 hour is the PADI system and that there is no research to prove that diving reverse profile makes it more likely that a bend will occur but could this make someone more likely to get a bend?
I've not seen any research on this - SI time and Reverse Profile diving and likelihood of getting a bend.
alex
TheMacallan
05-08-08, 07:27
I've not seen any research on this - SI time and Reverse Profile diving and likelihood of getting a bend.
alex
Alex,
Google "Dr. Valerie Flook".
She was at Scotfed 2000. I went up to Aberdeen just to hear her.
Quote form Scotfed…….
"Dr Valerie Flook gave a step by step account of the physics of decompression. . Basically this was similar presentation as presented at the IANTD Conference in Coventry. This presentation was intriguing in that it included both recordings of doppler measurements of bubbles in the blood and also video of ultrasound images of bubbles in the heart. "
"The most important aspects were in outlining several doubts about some of the widespread assumptions that haveb been made about decompression."
Bad luck Craig.
Glad you seem to have come out of it OK !
Worth getting a PFO check as Yogi said , I think.
All the best JB.
I think the lesson learned here is denial,Craig will be the first to admit he was convinced it was just a migraine and took a bit of encouragement to get on the O2 and even more so to call the chamber (i dialled it then handed him the phone).
We chatted about it afterwards and i said if that was me in your position would you make me call the chamber? definatly was the answer.If you ever suspect a bend give them a call for advice and definatly don't be embarrased 0845 408 6008 and it's manned 24hrs a day.
Yogi Diver
05-08-08, 08:45
As Alex says, migraine is a common symptom of a PFO. You need to get that checked Craig if you plan to keep diving. The consequences of ignoring it are too great.
If you can't get it done locally, get your GP to refer you to Dr Peter Wilmshurst at Royal Shrewsbury Hospital. He's a diving medical referee and probably the number one expert in the country on PFOs and diving.
I was originally told my PFO was small till he tested me and demonstrated just how much could shunt across.:eek:
The good bit is, it doesn't have to mean stopping diving altogether. I'm depth limited but still diving, with his blessing, till I get my PFO closed. Just waiting on a date to go to Golden Jubilee Hospital. Waiting list is 16 weeks so hopefully by November I'll be fixed and able to dive normally again by Xmas.:)
When I first spoke to the dive doc on Sunday He did Inform my that every1 is born with a pfo and 95% of people still have 1. but its only a small minority of people who's doesnt close enough. He was telling me that it can be treated with a simple injection into the an arterie, I have had my heart monitered from birth due to having a small VSD but there is no case for alarm with this type of murmor, as have passed all my HSE dive medicals. However I think the point Loudy made about denial is somthing we can all learn frm, this was only a minor bend but it could have been much worse. So the call to the hyperbaric chamber should always be made, if you do suspect a bend
Glad to hear your feeling better big man.
Yogi Diver
05-08-08, 14:29
When I first spoke to the dive doc on Sunday He did Inform my that every1 is born with a pfo and 95% of people still have 1. but its only a small minority of people who's doesnt close enough. He was telling me that it can be treated with a simple injection into the an arterie, I have had my heart monitered from birth due to having a small VSD but there is no case for alarm with this type of murmor, as have passed all my HSE dive medicals. However I think the point Loudy made about denial is somthing we can all learn frm, this was only a minor bend but it could have been much worse. So the call to the hyperbaric chamber should always be made, if you do suspect a bend
Craig, You are worrying me mate.:(
Have you had an echocardiagram to look for right to left shunts? I presume this would be done as part of the HSE dive medicals if you have a VSD?
Your symptoms sound like a shunt may have occurred?:(
The treatment of a VSD is similar to the one for a PFO. They insert a catheter via a vein in your leg and manuever a nytinol "grommet" into the hole. It takes about an hour under General anaesthetic and they keep you in overnight for observation. 6 weeks later you go back for another echocardiagram and, hopefully the all clear.
You can see video demonstrations on Amplatzer's (http://international.amplatzer.com/international_products/vsd_occluders/membranous_vsd_occluder_placement/tabid/539/default.aspx) website
Yeah mate had ecgs all my life and for hse medicals and for RN Mine clearence diver everythings fine and nowt to worry about just bad luck I think
alexmaclennan
06-08-08, 22:59
Alex,
Google "Dr. Valerie Flook".
She was at Scotfed 2000. I went up to Aberdeen just to hear her.
Thanks,
alex
sorry to be reading this but glad to hear your ok craig..