View Full Version : weight harnesses
i moved part of this thread as i can see a lot of learning in it.
stewart
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I wear ankle weights if I'm diving with a 12l tank and not of I'm using my 15l.
Simple reason is that I already have 13kg of lead in a harness that is only designed to hold 10.
Having an extra 1.5kg on my ankles is simple and easy with less chance of losing it ( DG may disagree here obviously ) than sticking an extra lump in a stab pocket.
Don't 'need' them , but don't have a hang about using them !
Cheers JBP.
Horses for courses i suppose but i've seen a few people lose them and don't notice till after the dive it's also nice to have a wee bit of air in the feet as it keeps the tootsie's warm :).
Simple reason is that I already have 13kg of lead in a harness that is only designed to hold 10.
no disrespect mate, but this is an accident waiting to happen.
seen it happen & had to assist on more than one occasion.
saw it happen today again! fortunatly it happend at the start of the dive but the diver was at 10m at the time and managed to hold on until assisted.
a fast ascent through 2 meters of water is enough to give anyone a baratroma at shallow depth due to the pressure change (boyles law).
fill the pouches beyond the manufacturers spec and the release mechanism is close to or beyond its holding point. give it a shake or bump and you could part company with it.
few people ever read the spec, they stuff the pouches full and get on with it.
please take the time to reconsider your setup and dont end up being a statistic.
Yogi Diver
16-03-08, 22:12
Got to agree with Stewart, Johnny. Consider redistributing some weight, if you really need 15Kg. (I'm a wee fat git and get away with 8 Kgs on my Zeagle with a 15 Litre and a Pony.)
How about 3 or 4 Kg weights strapped to your cylinder?
You've still have plenty ditchable weight in your harness for emergencies but keep it within design limits.
Much appreciate the concern guys , but believe me , nobody is more interested in my safety than me !
I have a Scubapro tech harness , the 'textbook' rating is 10kg and I have filled the pouches full ,but not 'over full'. When I weigh it its 13kg.
Everything is still hunky-dory , the pouches can still be easily jettisoned and are not so full that they are pulling the harness out of shape or straining the holding mechanism.
That said , they are as full as I think they should safely be - hence the reason I am sticking the extra weight elsewhere.
I have been using this setup for a year or so ( which doesn't guarantee anything , I accept ) , but feel confident that it is a safe configuration.
As always , I am always eager to hear other peoples opinions - you learn with your ears not your mouth I always say.
Thank you for your input guys , much appreciated.
It does seem like an awful lot of weight to be carrying though! I need ~11Kg with my twin 12/232's for when those puppies go buoyant.
believe me , nobody is more interested in my safety than me !
I have a Scubapro tech harness , the 'textbook' rating is 10kg and I have filled the pouches full ,but not 'over full'. When I weigh it its 13kg.
i respect your decision to continue to dive with your setup as is.
the reason i made the previous comment was based on arithmatic (& having witnessed it going wrong quite a few times).
put another way, you have 33% more lead than recomended.
dive safe... ;)
Johnny, I would also suggest 13Kg is a lot of weight to have, even with a drysuit. Have you performed a weight check recently, does your BC have trim pockets you could chuck a couple of kilos in, failing that on your cylinder strap.
But I would recommend a proper bouyancy check. After qualifying I continued to dive with about 12-14Kilos (thats what I was taught with), however I decided after a number of dives to do a weight check and now after some trimming and working on bouyancy skills I only need 8Kilos with a 12l 232 and 6 kilos with a 12l 300bar. I usually chuck in a kilo in a trim pocket when I have my pony to balance and yes I use ankle weights (couldnt care what others say about them, I probably dont need them but I am used to them and like them...if it aint broke dont fix it)
I hope you dont take any of the above the wrong way as it is not intended that way, just merely some food for thought.
Yogi Diver
17-03-08, 09:42
Remember, if you are diving with too much weight, this is compensated by air in suit and/or BCD which will increase the drag making you work, and therefore breathe, harder. Get your weight right and you will improve your air consumption.
Controlled ascents are also much easier when you do not have excess air to control.
Lizardland
17-03-08, 09:59
Horses for courses i suppose but i've seen a few people lose them and don't notice till after the dive it's also nice to have a wee bit of air in the feet as it keeps the tootsie's warm :).
It keeps your fins up and out of the way of stirring up the bottom as well.
Hi guys.
As luck would have it , I have my weight harness in the car from Saturday so was able to just check it on the weigh scales at work.
12.5kg
I could probably get away with maybe 1kg less without any problems , so am I overweighted ?
As opposed to overweight which is a whole different thread :O)
I would say not. When I do my safety stop at 3m and with 50 bar in the tank , I can hold my depth Ok if I have no air at all in my stab and have dumped all the air out my suit that I can get out without performing contortions.
I probably COULD squeeze another 1kg worth out if I really really tried , but I don't feel comfortable being right on the limit of negative buoyancy.
In short , I would rather dive 1kg overweighted and know I can hold my deco-stop without any drama.
Why so much weight ?
Don't really know , could be that I have a very simple and streamlined kit set up.
Single cylinder with an auto-air instead of an octo , conventional torch , camera ( slightly positively buoyant ). I have quite a thick undersuit and a thermal rash vest underneath , plus thermal boots.
Or maybe I'm just a floaty person.
Must be all that air in my head :O)
I like the Scubapro harness because it has a buckle release system on each of the weight pockets , so , in theory at least you should never be able to lose one by accident. Even should that occur , you would still only have lost less than half of your total weight and so although positively buoyant you would not head up like a rocket and would have a reasonable chance of coming out if it still smiling.
That said , a good point has been made regarding redistributing some of the weight around for example my stab , tank band etc and I will try that out before the easter weekend dive - cheers :O)
And lastly , just to keep the debate raging - I'm glad we have gotten on to the subject of weights and weight belts because there is something I have been meaning to ask.
Having had the 'pleasure' of having a conventional weight belt fall off at one point during my training ( I was fortunate enough to be able to fin down enough to catch it again - phew ) I am always puzzled by the concept of 'dumping your weightbelt' in an emergency.
Now for the purpose of this discussion I am refering to dumping your whole weight belt , which has always struck me as a stupendously bad idea under almost any conceivable circumstance.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Cheers JBP.
There would need to be a lot of sh1t on a very small fan before I would want my weights ditched.
If I had to rescue someone I would only be ditching their weights when they where on the surface to make sure they stayed there. Makes the rest of the rescue a bit lighter as well.
Other than that I would need to be in a situation where I didn't have a breath of air left at depth and nobody there to help me. Then I would look at getting myself to the surface pronto. I might be a bit f#cked up but I'd hopefully be alive.
Lizardland
17-03-08, 11:05
I try to avoid weight than can be ditched as well, last thing I want is to lose lead underwater either accidentally or deliberate. I've seen the effects of a runaway ascent from 40m, I'm no doctor but I'm pretty sure pink froth is bad, and I'd rather not have it. Most of my weight either comes from the backplate or permanently attached to it. I have a few pounds on a belt to adjust trim from fresh to salt and to give a bit of comfort on stops but even if I dumped it I could still stay down.
I have my weight on a "non-ditchable" Bowstone harness now. After being taught to have a weight belt that can be released, I thought about it and decided that I couldn't think of any situation in the water where I'd want to ditch my weights in total. I think Scott hit the nail on the head when he said that the main purpose of ditchable weight is to assist the rescuer on the surface. I guess diving from a RIB is made esier by being able to pass your weights up first. I think like everything else it's a compromise, I have decided to opt for more security in the water.
Some divers look at you a little strange when you say that your weights aren't releasable; I guess that's down to training. It works for me.
I could probably get away with maybe 1kg less without any problems , so am I overweighted ?
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I probably COULD squeeze another 1kg worth out if I really really tried , but I don't feel comfortable being right on the limit of negative buoyancy.
-------------------
I like the Scubapro harness because it has a buckle release system on each of the weight pockets , so , in theory at least you should never be able to lose one by accident. Even should that occur , you would still only have lost less than half of your total weight and so although positively buoyant you would not head up like a rocket and would have a reasonable chance of coming out if it still smiling.
now it sounds like im picking holes in you but here i go agan...:rolleyes::D
if you shed 1Kg you claim not to be comfortable holding a stop....>
if you drop a pouch with 6.5Kg in it you wont head 'up like a rocket'
i think if anyone dropped 6Kg they would be venturing in to an uncontrolled position .
i dive right on the wire with my weight, nothing extra.
i dive with 3Kg total lead, this is split in to 4, if i ditched it all, i ascend but im not in full control, i would hate to ditch 6Kg and see the outcome.
on the subject of harness release system (or any integrated weights)....
the ones with pull loops (the ones scubapro, ralph tec and ND amongst others have)... they have a nasty habbit of catching on things... like wrecks.
a diver on this forum had just that issue on the Hispania, think he dropped about 5Kg... he had to be assisted back to the shot line by 2 other divers while grappling along the wreck.
would be good if he joined in this conversation and give his account of what happened that day.
that was the same day i got hooked on 2 spikes and left dangling upside down by 2 D'rings on the back of my wing while trying to squeeze through a narrow gap in the hull.:o Doh!!
fortunatly i was assisted by my chuckling buddy so i didnt have to remove my kit to get myself free.
loops.... dont you just love them...:rolleyes:
Lizardland
17-03-08, 14:33
i would hate to ditch 6Kg and see the outcome.
Basically the same as putting a 6kg lift bag on something neutral... not an ascent I'd like to make. 12kg would be like fully inflating a small wing or BCD on someone and letting them go.
on the subject of harness release system (or any integrated weights)....
the ones with pull loops (the ones scubapro, ralph tec and ND amongst others have)... they have a nasty habbit of catching on things... like wrecks.
Having never used an integrated weight system I might be talking utter bollocks but the thing that has always struck me is that if it does release then you're going to struggle underwater to refit the blocks? Losing a weightbelt isn't the end of the world if you can grab it but that doesn't really seem an option if you're grabbing for 3 or 4 loose blocks of lead.
A panicking student I was with dumped his weightbelt, I managed to grab him in one hand and the belt in the other... I remember swearing a lot :D
I had a nice experience recently by trying a different weight arrangment. Basically I reduced my weight by 2Kilos. OK with my 300bar, but forgot to put it in again when I went in with the 232. Descended no problem but noticed I was having to make a lot of effort to stay down. At 6m I was heading for the surface in an uncontrolled manner, luckily not too deep a divee and managed to restrain the acceleration by grabbing hold of seaweed and stuff. Bearing in mind this was only a couple of kilos, talking about losing 6.5kg...polaris springs to mind!!
Well.............I have no intention of putting this to the test of course , but I reckon that if I did lose one of my pouches ( which can't happen of course ) that I would then be around 4kg positive if ( and its a big if ) I managed to dump all the air out my suit etc.
Little pull on the neck seal me thinks !
Lie back and spread out to present as much drag as possible.
Exhale.
Would be heading up for sure.
When I say I might come out of it still smiling , I kind of meant that there was a reasonably good chance I wouldn't be actually dead.
Could be very wrong of course and as I said before I AM going to take the good advice offered and redistribute some of my weights into fixed locations.
Thanks to everyone.
JBP :O)
the thing that has always struck me is that if it does release then you're going to struggle underwater to refit the blocks?
yes and no...depends on the volume of lead really, how quick you react and if you can catch them.
if integrated they are contained within a pouch and as you have 2 pouches its unlikely to ever be in a position of having dropped all weight, more likely only half of it.
perhaps the easiest thing to do is stick them in a pocket or hold on to them until you surface if you have a large volume of bulky lead.
if you have a small volume of lead (like myself 1.5Kg per pocket) you have more a chance of refitting them as they are less bulky and easier to slip the pouch back it to position.
i too am having a bit of a weight issue at the moment. that ill need to address. ive worked it out at around 40+lbs at the moment :eek: thats including the weight of my back plate and p weight. i dont use a weight belt as ive got int pockets on my harness that take the weight( round about the 30 odd mark). i dont feel over weighted though the figures say other wise.
any1 got any ideas on how to get the weight down?
kyle.
sandman,
you need what you need to make you sink no matter how much that is, take in to account your physical size, type of suit, undersuit etc.
do a weight check at the end of the dive is the only option i can think of.
if your bang on, then thats what you need.
40lb is 18.8Kg for info
sandman,
40lb is 18.8Kg for info
Hurray , someone who is worse than me :D:D;)
Just kidding , as Stewart rightly said , you need what you need.
Not feeling like the odd one out so much now - thanks for that :)
Yogi Diver
17-03-08, 16:43
Hurray , someone who is worse than me :D:D;)
:)
Yeah, but he's 7ft 6!!!;)
Yeah, but he's 7ft 6!!!;)
Yeah , but look at the size of my boobs...........:D
Note to me ; change avatar before people forget it was actually Regthing that gave it to me.
Yogi Diver
17-03-08, 17:14
Hurray , someone who is worse than me :D:D;)
Just kidding , as Stewart rightly said , you need what you need.
Not feeling like the odd one out so much now - thanks for that :)
Should stress Stewart's point. This is not a competition to see who can get away with the least weight. Just a gentle nudge to those who may be diving with excess weight to encourage them to consider whether or not they really need it. I know I used to dive with about 4 - 6 kgs of excess lead and really noticed the improvement when I (gradually) got rid of it.
I know I used to dive with about 4 - 6 kgs of excess lead and really noticed the improvement when I (gradually) got rid of it.
Yep. Same here.
ditto for me and watched my air consumption reduce drastically because of it!
The important fact in all this is slowly reduce weight. Not all at once. Take a Kilo off at a time and check your buoyancy over a number of dives, before making more reductions.
If you want to calculate buoyancy with different set ups try this link.
http://www.subaqua.co.uk/cgi-bin/cylinder-buoyancy.cgi
Mad Major
The important fact in all this is slowly reduce weight. Not all at once. Take a Kilo off at a time and check your buoyancy over a number of dives, before making more reductions.
If you want to calculate buoyancy with different set ups try this link.
http://www.subaqua.co.uk/cgi-bin/cylinder-buoyancy.cgi
Mad Major
Yip , tried that.
Ended up three quarters of the way through the dive , hanging on to a big rock while my dive buddy looked for big stones to stick in my stab pockets :)
think we have all either been that diver or that buddy at some point during our diving! i know I have!
Airmonster
20-03-08, 09:23
I had similar problems when I started out, I needed lots of weight and could not fit it all in the pouches of the BCD. I was forced to split it and put some on my belt. Tried various alternatives, all the weight in the BCD split between the pouches and some secured to the cylinder strap. This made the BCD very heavy and I was worried about wear and tear on it. It was also a real pain when changing cylinders between dives as it required re-threading every time. Tried putting all the weight on the belt, but this was very uncomfortable and most times it was down over my bum by the end of the dive. :o I needed to have it so tight to stop it moving that it made it harder to get all the air out of the suit on ascent and also increased the discomfort. I settled on having it split between BCD and belt.
As my diving progressed, my weight slowly reduced (and is still doing so) to a level I could get it all in the BCD or on the belt, however I have decided to keep it split between BCD and belt. Not as much weight in my BCD reduces the strain on the straps when donning and doffing and it makes the whole process that bit easier. I'm used to the location of my weights and feel comfortable in the water with them so I don't see any point in changing them. After reading the posts about integrated weights I've came to the conclusion that, for me, having my weight split is a good configuration (I currently using about 12kg in winter and 11kg in summer). If I loose any weight, belt or integrated, it is only a part of my total weight. While this will still cause severe buoyancy problems (surface here I come :eek:) I hope this will be easier to cope with than a complete weight loss or even a 50% weight loss. Obviously I haven't tried this and hopefully never will!
So IMHO if you require a lot of lead, try splitting it. Keeps the weight in your pouches within the range they were designed to carry and ensures you still have some lead should you loose any. Just make sure you buddy knows where all your weight is.
This is only my opinion and appreciate it may not suite everyone, but surly it's worth a try. (unless someone can come up with a reason not to use it)
Thanks,
/Colin. :D
Hi Airmonster.
I totally agree with what you are saying and think the best move for me would be to displace some of the weight off my harness and into my BCD ( while still retaining my ankle weights ).
I thought that fixing ( sewing maybe ? ) a shot bag into the very bottom of each of the pockets would be a good idea. Keeps the weight symetrical and down near the bottom of my rig which is where I want it to be.
The I remembered I am taking it to Egypt next week , so maybe wait until I get back to try that one out.
My second bright idea was to stick a block weight onto my ( unused ) pony strap. Haven't tried this out yet , but would be an OK short/medium term fix as long as it doesn't flap about too much , or upset my balance point.
What ya think ?
Cheers JB.
Hi folks.
Apreciate the input on all matters , but I would like to focus ,if you will ,on one of the points which I made earlier on in this thread which was :
When would it be a good idea to ditch your weight belt ?
As I said before , I kind of perceive this as being a monumentally stupid thing to do under any set of ( realistic ) circumstances which we ( cold water , big weight belt ) divers would encounter.
If so, why are we still teaching it ?
Would love to have your opinions.
I'm not sure that there is any situation that this is ideal - unless you found yourself completely out of air, with no buddy. Of course this should never happen even on solo dives as you should always plan a 'get out of jail' before the dive. Do they still teach this? I did all my training before pony's/twins were a normal piece of equipment.
When would it be a good idea to ditch your weight belt ?
never a good idea IMHO but if the circumstances arose (trapped/ very low air-OOA/ too deep-sinking-wrong kit &/or with a bad down-currant) ..its better to suffer a bend than drown....perhaps!
but then again, if its a serious dive and your well in to it then you might be already dead and just dont know it.
all depends on the situation and how desperate you are to be topside.
if i had too, id ditch my full kit.... but it would have to be a last ditched attempt and life dependant.
Yogi Diver
22-03-08, 06:46
[quote=JohnnyB;23782]Hi folks.
When would it be a good idea to ditch your weight belt ?
quote]
When you are on the surface with a dodgy BCD.
(And a big bag of scallops?):D
hey guys,
I've missed most of this thread by being on a trawler all week, but it's really interesting reading :)
As far as I'm aware (at least with BSAC) teaching weightbelt jettisons has only been reintroduced in the last couple of years. I believe the point in it is based on the annual incident reports - apparently a fair number of drowned divers are found with their weightbelts still on, whereas if they had dumped them they might be bent but alive. I can't imagine doing it deliberately in anything other than a major catastrophe though.
Zan
There would need to be a lot of sh1t on a very small fan before I would want my weights ditched.
If I had to rescue someone I would only be ditching their weights when they where on the surface to make sure they stayed there. Makes the rest of the rescue a bit lighter as well.
Other than that I would need to be in a situation where I didn't have a breath of air left at depth and nobody there to help me. Then I would look at getting myself to the surface pronto. I might be a bit f#cked up but I'd hopefully be alive.
Bumped due to question being raised.
And more to the point. Have you seen the price of lead these days :eek:
And more to the point. Have you seen the price of lead these days :eek:
yeah,
i bought some light weight lead for a change, it was only half the price.
yeah,
i bought some light weight lead for a change, it was only half the price.
Are you on the wine again :rolleyes: ;)
Are you on the wine again :rolleyes: ;)
I bl00dy hope so , its 8 on a saturday night !
Are you on the wine again :rolleyes: ;)
you know me better than i know myself...;)
finishing off last nights bottle of 'Andrew Peace' shiraz.
usually about 5-6 quid a bottle, i got 4 bottles for 10 quid as they had squint/creased labels.:rolleyes:
squint labels really destroy the taste... might take the empties back and complain..:D
I just bought a bottle of stoneleigh pinot noir and it is disgusting. Have to drink it though as I'm not driving to the shop for a better one:mad:
Well I was camping last night with what was meant to be 8 Scouts. 11 turned up :eek:
Woke up to the ground frozen..... I'm having a well deserved bottle of Kumala Eternal, Shiraz Cabernet & Sauvignon. Half price in Tesco £8 to £4. Which was nice because it isn't worth £8. But I've also got a case of Old Speckled Hen and a bottle of Gin :D. My posts might go down hill very soon. Either that or I'll be sleeping :rolleyes:
glad im not tall enough to reach the 8 quid bottles if they tasts disgusting..
2nd bottom shelf does me fine.. :D
glad im not tall enough to reach the 8 quid bottles if they tasts disgusting..
2nd bottom shelf does me fine.. :D
So what did you do for Tom Horn before the internet? Look under hedges for grumble weed :D
So what did you do for Tom Horn before the internet? Look under hedges for grumble weed :D
LMAO....:D never really had that problem;):D:D
bet your glad your tall...:D
Lizardland
22-03-08, 21:25
Well I was camping last night with what was meant to be 8 Scouts. 11 turned up :eek:
Woke up to the ground frozen..... I'm having a well deserved bottle of Kumala Eternal, Shiraz Cabernet & Sauvignon. Half price in Tesco £8 to £4. Which was nice because it isn't worth £8. But I've also got a case of Old Speckled Hen and a bottle of Gin :D. My posts might go down hill very soon. Either that or I'll be sleeping :rolleyes:
Torres and Casillero del Diablo are on offer in Tesco at the moment. I'm on the Torres, lasagne in the oven and the Saturday paper waiting... I'm so rock & roll :)
Can't believe you went camping, it was snowing here!
On the wine myself :D box of red from the coop :)
LMAO....:D never really had that problem;):D:D
bet your glad your tall...:D
I could reach the top shelf even when I thought it was for pissing over high walls :D
Torres and Casillero del Diablo are on offer in Tesco at the moment. I'm on the Torres, lasagne in the oven and the Saturday paper waiting... I'm so rock & roll :)
Can't believe you went camping, it was snowing here!
Yep, we got a bit of snow when we where pitching the tents :eek:. Roast beef, hot bath and this 'months' Viz awaits. And a sparkling amount of pop :D
Yep, we got a bit of snow when we where pitching the tents :eek:.
you disgust me...:rolleyes: :D:D
you disgust me...:rolleyes: :D:D
It was exciting ;) :D
EXCUSE ME , I'M TRYING TO HAVE A SERIOUS THREAD HERE !!!!!!
What was that half price wine at Tesco's again , hic :O)
Got any cider ))))>>>>00000000..........
EXCUSE ME , I'M TRYING TO HAVE A SERIOUS THREAD HERE !!!!!!
What was that half price wine at Tesco's again , hic :O)
Got any cider ))))>>>>00000000..........
the thread has went from weight belts to cheap wine to young boys in tents...:rolleyes:
i only see one culprit involved in all the activities.:D (& its me)
the thread has went from weight belts to cheap wine to young boys in tents...:rolleyes:
i only see one culprit involved in all the activities.:D (& its not me)
Oh , young boys in tents , I missed that bit , where do we get them :O)
Just kidding , calm , calm down ......\\\\\
One of my colleagues at work is a scout leader , know how 'touchy' they can be on THAT subject.
the thread has went from weight belts to cheap wine to young boys in tents...:rolleyes:
i only see one culprit involved in all the activities.:D (& its NOT me)
;)
how do you get a hot bath when camping? and roast beef for that matter?
One of my colleagues at work is a scout leader , know how 'touchy' they can be on THAT subject.
Only if they have something to hide :eek: :rolleyes:
Me! I like to perpetuate the myths :D
how do you get a hot bath when camping? and roast beef for that matter?
Or a broadband internet connection :rolleyes:
I was only camping last night. Back home now :)
Lizardland
22-03-08, 23:43
Oh , young boys in tents , I missed that bit , where do we get them :O)
Just kidding , calm , calm down ......\\\\\
One of my colleagues at work is a scout leader , know how 'touchy' they can be on THAT subject.
Classic line from The Naked Gun... "I haven't had this much sex since I was a scout leader..."
:D