View Full Version : manta ray
ok guys n gals lets see what your editing techniques can do with this one.
i took this in 2004, less than 1 week before the tsunami struck.
http://www.cusac.org/e107/gallery/Member_Galleries/13.Stewart_Russell/sr-maldives2004/sr-m415-mantapeeloff.jpg
its actually a black manta ray so the top should be black in colour as opposed to the normal blue colour.
this beast was about 3-4m in width and i had trouble getting it all in the shot, but every picture of a manta is a good pic in my book, you dont see many of these at the caves :rolleyes:
edit away!
teh picture's not showing up for me... Can you repost please?
Stew.
I think you need to be authenticated to the cusac forum to link from it.
Ill host on my flickr for ya.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2234112547_f8b22363bd_o.jpg
hmmmm i can view it no problem, the gallery section is public access, however.
thanks for hosting it davie...
Not that I will be editting your photo as I don't do my own - but I can't see the picture either.
Editted seconds later - oh right, now I can!
Perfect picture, no need to edit in my books! ;)
OK you lazy b@st@rd.
http://www.regthing.co.uk/images/stew.jpg
I think that's a pint you owe me ;)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/ranchuolddog/2234112547_f8b22363bd_ocopy2.jpg
Here is my first half hr at it. A lotta work to go.
Scot, constructive crit on your first edit is the yellow cast on lower areas of the manta.
Hi Stew,
What a majestic creature the manta is, it's always a privilege to swim with them never mind photographing them.
I posted the edit then looked at it again an hour later. Don’t think I have done the shot any favours. I tried to give the shot the blue water that the Maldives are so famous for but ended up leaving the manta stark.
The big challenge to edit this shot comes from the shear lack of image data in the red channel. What is there is 90% noise. The white blown out area on the flank of the manta is exactly that. Blown out of all data. It's always easier to rescue an underexposed image because the data is still there to extract. In this instance when the cyan colour shift is removed from the flank it leaves the brightest overexposed area stark and without detail.
There could be a few reasons for the apparent lost detail.
One reason could be that it was shot at a low meg resolution or is a frame capture of a vid clip. Vids are commonly shot at frame rates of 30 frames per second so its understandable to loose definition in captures like those.
The second reason is that we are editing a 4 generation image.
1. By 4 generation I mean that if you shot the picture in JPEG the camera would have compressed the image data.
2. You then posted the image to you web host. Big compression loads o data loss.
3. We couldn’t see the first image, so it was re stored on photobucket. Loadso more compression.
4. We edited the shots and re posted again on photobucket.
5. We view the edits on CA. Sh*t i am loosing count :D
In conclusion that’s a lot of rendering and compression loss for any image to loose and dam hard to give a reasonable edit result. But its fun trying.
Hi Olddog.
Yep, I see that yellow cast now. Editing on a laptop isn't the best idea in the world. I need to get my spare room cleared so I can plug into my CRT :rolleyes:
The red channel was almost completely gone:
http://www.regthing.co.uk/images/channels.jpg
I used the channel mixer to bring in pixels from the green channel and a bit from the blue.
I didn't do much to the water after that as this brought the blue colour back. Only cloned out some larger bits of back scatter and a bit of a blur.
There is also a fair bit of jpg noise around the edges of the manta and around its gills in the original.
Brace yourself Olddog.... ;)
I don't fully agree with your understanding of jpg compression. The only compression that should take place is when the jpg is created. Uploading the image should not change the data within the file package. That's almost like saying if you upload a word doc the words will be changed.
To me a 4th gen jpg would be one that has been opened in an image editing program then had a "save as" applied. This will then re-run the jpg algorithm and get rid of unwanted data.
My reasoning for the lack of red channel is purely due to the depth the image was taken at (I'm presuming this wasn't taken at 6m). The red is almost fully absorbed from about 10m onwards. Without a magic filter or strobe there is no way you will get a red channel even with the best of still cameras.
*end of my thoughts*
I will have another play later on. I think an image somewhere between the two will be good. I really like what you did with the water colour but I hink you're right in saying the underside is too stark. I like to bear in mind that I'm trying to create the image as it would be seen on the water. Therefore even though the underside might be white, it will appear darker when lit from above. In saying that I've missed the mark with a bit too much yellow. My water is a bit too grey as well.
We'll get you a good image yet Stew. It will cost you a pint a piece now :D
good eforts so far guys, both doing well.
pic was shot as a jpeg on a 4mp camera with no strobe or flash.
the depth was around 24-28m & yes it was the maldives.
the origional image should be linked from here (http://www.cusac.org/e107/news.php)
click on (top left) galleries/members/stewartrussell etc.
there are another few manta pics there as well amongst others.
ok a pint for the best effort, not a pint each... :p..
so far scott, your doing exceptionally well in second place.:D
olddog just sneaking it on the clarity at the moment.
the origional image should be linked from here (http://www.cusac.org/e107/news.php)
click on (top left) galleries/members/stewartrussell etc.
I don't suppose you have the original from the camera? The one on the website has been shrunk by the looks of it.
I don't suppose you have the original from the camera? The one on the website has been shrunk by the looks of it.
i will have a look, might have it on disc somewhere but sadly i lost most of my Maldives pics when my hard-drive gave up on my other PC.
might just have to go back one day :rolleyes:
Well I took this one from scratch
Channel mixed the red channel back in, tweaked the levels of each channel, blurred the jpg noise around the ray to sharpen it, spot healed, healed and blurred out backscatter.
http://www.regthing.co.uk/images/stews_manta.jpg
very good scotty boy... sneaks in to the lead..;)
a pint of??
very good scotty boy... sneaks in to the lead..;)
a pint of??
Whiskey :D
Hi Olddog.
Brace yourself Olddog.... ;)
I don't fully agree with your understanding of jpg compression. The only compression that should take place is when the jpg is created. Uploading the image should not change the data within the file package. That's almost like saying if you upload a word doc the words will be changed.
To me a 4th gen jpg would be one that has been opened in an image editing program then had a "save as" applied. This will then re-run the jpg algorithm and get rid of unwanted data.
Brace yourself Scot :D, I have a CSE in fartinabootography so I know my onions.:cool:
Read these articles
http://www.jmg-galleries.com/articles/jpeg_compression.html
http://www.steves-digicams.com/techcorner/October_2004.html
They explain the JPEG save loss phenomenon better than I can. Its one of the reasons I have always recommended to you to shoot RAW when your camera or shooting situation allows. JPEGs are never used by serious photogs. They were first developed for snappers with low tec/capacity cameras. Times have changed now. Another good tip if you cant shoot RAW is to convert the shot to one of the may lossless formats in P/S. That stops any further degradation.
P.S. if yer not old enough to know what a CSE is ask yer dad. And remember in future "Olddog is all knowing on the subject of fartinaboot".;)
PPS.
You have the manta shot just about nailed good job on the detail sections of the manta. One last tweek to rid the water of the strawberry cast woud polish it off. Try sellect tool for the job.
Also mucho impressed :cool: with the screen shot of the P/S histograms. How did you do that
Whiskey :D
yeah, i hope you take water in your Whiskey or Whisky... ;)
note to self, keep posting your crappy pics and get them edited free of charge..:D
I am going to have a play later on when I get home. I think that the efforts so far are quite impressive but the natural-ness is lost. I honestly dont think there is much to do (can be done) to this image. Removing some of the scatter in the water, shaprpening up the image and dropping some of the blue from the underbelly is about all that needs done. All efforts so far have had a good effect on the ray itelf but the water doesnt look correct, my intention is to work on the two separately and get each looking natural in their own right then bring them together. Dont know when I will get round to fiddling with it, but I am not as old as olddog and dont have CSE in fartinaboot but I do have an O'grade in wastintime and a BA in knowshitall.
Excellent stuff this! :D
Scottie ya ganna get piped to the post for ya pint o Glenfinick. Chris has a sound game plan and it sounds like a goodun.
What yer need to do is sort the water oot and stick a nice big sun ball in the top right hand corner to win.:D
Here is a link to fake sunballs.http://www.downloadculture.com/
Take care youngin, Chris has an "O" level and he aint afraid to use it. :eek::eek:
think i might keep the pint in the tap for now...
Think I did pretty good with this one, whats your thoughts?
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5858/stewartmantacopymw4.jpg
I enjoyed fiddling with this, not sure I have it quite correct though
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/479/stewartmantalightrayzx8.jpg
PS if these dont show, let me know, I had to use imageshack as photobucket is down at the moment
dive granny
05-02-08, 22:40
In my humble opinion, not knowing too much about these things, the lighting in the second one looks a bit artificial. It looks too perfect. It is still an amazing pic though
Looks good Chris. Agree with DG though, the light ball is a bit naff.
Definately has a more natural look to it. The only thing I would say would be to zoom in and blur out the jpg noise around the edge of the ray and it's gills.
I've gave up doing Stews dirty work ;). Learned a few things on this edit and I've went back and re-visited some older pics. But I won't hijack this thread.
DG you are correct with the light rays, this was my first play with that effect and after posting the above I noticed that I got it totally wrong. Readjusted it but still not convinced.
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2623/stewartmantalightray2ye6.jpg
Scott, so right, I am learning so much playing with Stewart's image, how does this one look?
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5612/stewartmantacopy2uy5.jpg
Scott, so right, I am learning so much playing with Stewart's image, how does this one look?
Much sharper ;)
Do I get the pint then?????
I enjoyed fiddling with this, not sure I have it quite correct though
On the other hand it could be great for the next caption competition on, ahem, another dive related web site, where after your next great photo edit you could do a picture of yourself diving with the sun shining out of your ........
Well, I think you know where! :D
Nice edit though - I did think some of the earlier attempts were too purple and didn't look realistic and the uneditted version was more realistic. But these last few are clearer than the original whilst still looking like underwater.
However, making as much effort as Stewart with my own photos, how long did it take and would it be worth the effort normally, as opposed to as a learning experience?
all in, being that I learned a lot whilst doing the edits about 30-45 minutes, however I reckon now starting from scratch about 10 minutes. So if there is a keeper then its worth it.
A lot of our older images havee the stupid datemark on it (someone insisted on keeping that one) this adds an extra step as playing with the RGB levels can sometimes give the wrong results as red is being picked up, once cropped out it is OK. Does the software that came with the camera have the ability to remove that or is it stuck on the jpeg (cropping required?).
Like I loaded the software that came with the camera - doh!
Do you want me to read the manual?
no that would require you doing something practical!
Okay, read the 118 page software manual and the 100 page camera manual. Whilst it doesn't say you can't do it it gives no indication that you can. It tells you in the camera how to set it to do it in the first place. Therefore the answer would seem to be
NO
However, it did helpfully hint that "Do not get camera wet" - wish I'd know that before, although I don't think "wet" really covers it. :(
PS Time between last 2 posts was how long it took me to read all that rubbish - could've editted a couple fo photos in that time - or 20 or so my way! :D
sorry to interupt george and mildred in action but...........
Do I get the pint then?????
if i can snatch it away from scott, i think you just might... but its a pint of beer, not spirits!! :eek:
i liked this one...
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2623/stewartmantalightray2ye6.jpg
the light ball still isnt exactly natural looking, but its almost there and pretty striking.
not critiscising.. hell i cant even work the software... need to look up an idiots guid to get me started. :o
Chris that edit deserves the pint hands down. You have given that shot a measured approach that has gained maximum editing improvement, whilst retaining the natural look of the shot.
The second edit with the fake sunball is well off the mark, but very interesting.
I only made the sunball suggestion in jest, but when that technique is mastered that manipulation could certainly achieve some daring and stunning results.
I couldn’t get the tutorial to play on my computer but a hunt around some of the adobe action sites would dig up another working effect.
:cool::cool::cool: Well done :cool::cool::cool:
Also mucho impressed :cool: with the screen shot of the P/S histograms. How did you do that
Hi Olddog,
Sorry I wasn't ignoring you. I meant to go back and have a look at those jpg compression links (still haven't done it yey)
But to answer your question. If you hit Ctrl+Print Screen (maybe Prt Scr) this will take a screen capture of the whole screen, background every window etc. This can then be pasted into your favourite image edititng software. Alternatively if you hit Alt+Print Screen it will screen capture the active window only :cool:
Stewart...
wHit f f f fecking piNt.....
macstinator
06-02-08, 14:21
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/295/mantatp3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
is my attempt!
Get in there Macstinator. Straight into the big lads on yer very first post.;)
The manta is fair jumping off me monitor. For improvement me thinks you would benefit from doing a web tutorial on selection techniques to sort the halo around the manta.
Splendid first attempt, welcome to C/A.
Welcome the Macstinator.
No messing about straight to the photo edits indeed :D You'll fit in here just fine ;)
I agree with Olddog though, looks like a bit of feather was used which gave you the halo round the ray.
Pop into Jimmy's Pup (http://www.congeralley.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=17) and let us know a bit about yourself.
Welcome again to CA :)
macstinator
06-02-08, 15:46
no feather, i duplicated the layer and blurred that, then erased the other layer on top.
i see what you mean though. my head was frazzled enough. will try again later...and yes, terribly rude not introducing myself...will do.
go on!! I have one more thing to do to mine before I am happy, it was late last night after a long day and I forgot one important thing, hopefully get a chance tonight.
go on!! I have one more thing to do to mine before I am happy, it was late last night after a long day and I forgot one important thing, hopefully get a chance tonight.
He is ganna clone a perky little mermaid in the bottom left corner to cop the prize. :D:D
Found this sun beam tutorial on the web. http://tutorialsite.org/tutorial.php?tut=Underwater%20Sunset
I have bean farting about with it for yonks but cant string it together. I am in a right old pickle with more layers open on me desk top than in a bag of onions. ::o
i might leave the pint behind the bar for now..... you never know where this is going.
welcome Macstinator, great attempt.;)
well percevered with some other stuff and I just cant get it do what I want so I am leaving it where it is.
One of my own from Gran Canaria I played with a bit, thought it was good in original form
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/chrisareid/favourites/PA190969.jpg
A bit of PSing about
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/chrisareid/favourites/PA190969copy.jpg
Without the green to show it was underwater it now looks like a couple of alien spaceships flying over Montana.
Seriously though, it cleaned up really well there
remind me to never visit Montana :D
Although my 30 second editor version isn't bad.....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/BillBusRammer/Cuttlefish.jpg
remind me to never visit Montana :D
Why would I need to - it's America's fourth largest state, yet 44th in population terms - there is a reason for this! :(
Why would I need to - it's America's fourth largest state, yet 44th in population terms - there is a reason for this! :(
alien spaceships ?:D
p.s. i like the 30 second edit..
C:\Documents and Settings\Stuart\My Documents\My Pictures\manta.jpg
Not sure this is going to work if it does I hope you like. For the record I'm not trying to correct anything, rather I'm trying to make the image look...cool. If you like, buy me a pint someday.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2233/1685867180_7d7f40d3db.jpg?v=0