View Full Version : The question to ask?
After every dive its worth asking the question?
Was there a better way to do the dive?
On every dive there will be some tiny incidents which will cause some kind of inconvenience, by managing the things which cause inconveniences major incident are avoided.
I would hope that every diver has this mind set.
Reads like a pamphlet from a HS&E brain washing program.
"What could I have done differently?"
"What if such and such happened?"
"Would my actions have caused other reponses?"
"How would I feel is this happened to me?"
I'm not particuarly keen on this type of reasoning. Contary to popular belief, not every accident is preventable.
I think the answer to the original is yes you should, i would imagine almost everyone does sub consciously. Whilst, no, not every accident is preventable, its attitudes like the one above that help to cause accidents!
its attitudes like the one above that help to cause accidents!
really, expand please? Lets hear what your imagination has to say.
I'm sure we have all done something that when you look back you think "opps that was close" or "wish I hadn't done that" and 99.999% of the time we get away with it. If you ever get to the stage where you ignore what went wrong you are asking for trouble.
A few months back (or perhaps a little more) there was an incident in Diver magazine, where an instructor jumped into a pool, because she had got complacent, and drowned, she made the mistake of wearing a weight belt.
How many people have you seen not doing buddy checks? Again most of the time they will get away with it, but just occasionally something will happen, someone not connecting a dry suit hose (see other topics in this forum).
Its when you get to the point of being complacent because "I'm an experienced diver" or "I've done this dive hundreds of times before" that accidents will and just occasionally DO happen.
As I said above, not all are avoidable, but the more care you take, including reviewing and learning about what has gone wrong to you or someone else then hopefully the safer you will be.
I think Brian has got a really good point. I have only been diving for just over a year so don't want to preach to others who have vastly more experience, but I have been suprised with the number of experienced divers that I have been out with on a dive who, at the end of the dive, complete their log book and record details of congers, starfish etc but make no mention that they had a major problem with, for example, their drysuit or buoyancy - including runaway ascent or in one case a buddy failing to notice that I had disappeared for five minutes to retrieve a lost fin (yes, stupid me!) :eek:
I record any problems that I have had - or areas for improvement - in my log book and then try and work on them the next dive - which I think is what PADI encourage - and I find it helps; but I can see that might not appeal to everyone - makes diving a bit too much like athletics' training!
Lizardland
30-11-07, 10:44
I think everyone does or should think the same after a dive, we may or may not discuss it openly but the thought process should be there.
I've done a couple of thousand dives and I still come out afterwards thinking "next time I'll...".
I guess other people have learned it all after a handful of dives. I wish I'd been that good. It would have saved a lot of hassle.
I feel diving is like anything you do in life, you will never know anything and everyday/dive you learn something.
I am pretty sure the more "expereinced" divers learn even little things such as "I should clip that xxxx to another d-ring next dive".
I know I tend to pick something up, even from just confirming I have done things right by watching others do wrong.
I agree with Stuart, if only I had learned everything in the first handful of dives.
Lizardland
30-11-07, 12:36
I'm involved in risk and safety analysis at work and one of the surprising things is that new starts are one of the safest groups of worker. If you draw a graph against time with one line showing experience levels and another showing fear levels then where they cross is where most workers have accidents. Experience is high enough that they know what they are doing and fear levels have dropped that they are comfortable in that environment. Or put another way, where they have become complacent. New starts are usually too scared to put themselves in danger even if they don't have the experience to deal with what comes up. They've done all the inductions and safety training so it's still fresh and do well at avoiding the big risks. As time passes that diminishes and they see how much they can get away with.
Are you saying that, after every single dive, no matter where, when and what you have dived, you debrief yourself with "what could I have done better?" What I find unsettling here is that you are either trying to deceive yourself or delude those you preach too.
There are at times when we say to ourselves, next time I’m going to try xxx. But, on the majority of dives we get out the water, pack our gear away, quick sign of the log books and head off for a pint/home/work etc.
I tend to fill my logbook out at a later stage, filling in all the usual info plus anything that mattered during that dive. Recently I have been correcting my trim, which has meant diving with weights in different places and different amounts. I have recorded all of these, until I have found the perfect balance. Now I just dive and enjoy the various sights of flora and fishes. What I don’t do is drive home and beat myself up because I was'nt fining backwards efficiently, or my SMB bumped into a bit of rusty metal.
I absolutely do not believe that every diver I have came across debugs every last detail of his or her dive. Most of us dive for fun, as it is our hobby. It is not the “be all or end all of life,” just a past time we enjoy. Continually questioning yourself, doubting your choices and decisions will inevitably impact your confidence and hold back your progression within the sport and your enjoyment.
"After every dive its worth asking the question?”
Only if you are trying out something new, or on a new site.
“Was there a better way to do the dive?"
The Safety Oxymoron comes into play here “the safest way to dive, is not to dive at all”
Lizardland
30-11-07, 16:30
Continually questioning yourself, doubting your choices and decisions will inevitably impact your confidence and hold back your progression within the sport and your enjoyment.
Yes, you're right. I've continually found my progression has been held back by looking at dives that didn't go as well as I wanted. I'll get the hang of it one day. If I do what you do and keep telling myself I've nothing left to learn then does it mean I've nothing left to learn? I hope so, it'll make using the new breathing tube, flippers and goggles that I've asked Santa for much more exciting. Then maybe I can do one of those PADI super-advanced courses I've heard about so I get a chance to try an aqualung.
"After every dive its worth asking the question?”
Only if you are trying out something new, or on a new site.
Too right. If I'm not satisfied with how something has gone then if I ignore then I'll feel more reassured.
“Was there a better way to do the dive?"
The Safety Oxymoron comes into play here “the safest way to dive, is not to dive at all”
You've hit it three in a row. There's no point trying to improve how you dive. Are you taking subscriptions or can I just volunteer to be a disciple?
After every dive its worth asking the question?
Was there a better way to do the dive?
On every dive there will be some tiny incidents which will cause some kind of inconvenience, by managing the things which cause inconveniences major incident are avoided.
I can definately see the validity of your question, as previously mentioned for those doing training, new kit, new site, different buddy etc etc.
Depends on how reflective im being will depend on how much i write in the log book but i'll often make a note of things to change / work on so the little dive gremlins and complacency / arrogance doesnt bite me on the ass too hard or too often.
I'm finished, I'm ****ed. Twenty four hours ago, man, I was hot! Now... I'm a cautionary tale. You see this jacket I'm wearing, you like it? Because I don't really need it. Because I'm cloaked in failure! I lost the number one draft picked the night before the draft! Why? Let's recap: Because a hockey player's kid made me feel like a superficial jerk. I ate two slices of bad pizza, went to bed and grew a concience!
oops, thought this was the Jerry Maguire forum...:p
we all learn at a different rates, some faster, some slower; being self-critical is a positive step forward in anyones diving.
the bottom line is.... we all learn in the end one way or another!!
what brian2 is saying maybe in slightly padi speak is avoiding falling into the incident pit . a good way i have found to aviod complacancy is to read the incident reports on the bsac web site. dive safe :o
I like to think about every one of my dives. I have to admit that there is something in most dives that I'd like to improve on/change.
Anybody who thinks they can just go from dive to dive without a second thought is either; vastly kidding themself on; a sh1t hot diver or fish food in waiting.
The conditions we put ourselves in have far too many variables and changable at the drop of a hat that you cannot afford to take anything for granted. If I even get close to something new I like to mull it over afterwards so that if it pops up again I will be better mentally prepared to deal with it.
I like to think this will make me a safer diver in the long run. It certainly doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the sport. If anything it enhances it. I like the challenges.
i think we would need to agree to disagree, other wise this thread will turn into a bad slagging/pissing contest.
There are divers that analyze every last part of their diving and there are divers that just dive then go home. There is also everything in between.
Me; I dive, get my cylinders refilled and then go home. Some might not like it, some do the same.
Andy
dive granny
02-12-07, 17:10
I agree. I don't like when things get too heated.
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure;) A wee quote from next years diary. Thougt it appropriate:)