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hickdive
15-11-07, 19:08
An inflexible person's hints on reaching your valves.

Ok I'm not going to talk about valve drills or any blah like that 'cos I know nothing of those matters, I'm just going to run through some of the things that I have found helpful when reaching for my valves on my twin twelve litre cylinders with an isolation manifold mounted on a backplate and wing.

Now, I'm a very inflexible person and my drysuit and undersuit aren't specially designed to assist, in addition I just have bog-standard 'short' plastic handwheels on my valves, not nice long rubber ones, but I have found these tips have made it relatively easy for me to reach my valves.

I know that for many people this will be an exercise in teaching your granny how to suck eggs. But, having been through the process of learning how to do this entirely by myself, I hope it might save someone else some of the consternation I experienced; so the patience of those who are completely familiar with this is appreciated.

1. Make sure the top band is really high on the cylinders. The top edge of the band should be just where the curve of the cylinder neck starts.

2. Lie as horizontal as possible in the water when reaching for your valves. If you're kneeling or vertical then gravity will pull the cylinders down your back and away from your hands.

3. Stretch out your arms and legs straight out in front and behind you as far as they will go i.e. a bit like Superman in flight, before you reach for your valves. I mean really stttrrettchhh!!, like when you first get out of bed in the morning. You'll feel your drysuit and undersuit sliding over each other giving you much more room around the shoulders. I like to do this occasionally throughout the dive to make sure I'm ready to isolate.

4. When reaching back, try and get the inside of your upper arm as close to the side of your head as possible; your hand will get much further back than if you have your elbow sticking out at nearly ninety degrees to your head.

5. Tilt your head back. It's counter-intuitive I know but putting your head back really does bring your hand closer to your valve. Tilting your head forward might bring the valves a little bit further up your back but it restricts the rearward rotation of your shoulder by much more than you gain.

6. If need be, you can use your head to push your hand back towards the isolator.

7. Don't wear really bulky undergarments on your arms otherwise your elbow joint can't close as far as it might.

8. Don't have lots of gauges on one arm otherwise your elbow joint can't close as far as it might.

9. Don't be completely vacuum packed in your suit. Take the squeeze off and ensure that the suit isn't compressed so much that it is restricting movement.

10. Practice regularly, even if you don't actually shut down any valves, just reaching back and getting positive contact with each valve two or three times each dive helps.

The above have helped me enormously and here are a few more tips that, although I haven't used them myself, are supposed to help too.

Don't use a conventional BC, the over-the-shoulder parts of the buoyancy bladder can get in the way of your shoulder rotating and your elbow closing.

Don't have your harness cross behind your head, it reduces shoulder mobility and stops your head from tilting back fully.

Do pull up any excess drysuit material up through your waist harness to give more room for your shoulders

Try stretching your arms and rotating your shoulders before the dive to get them as warmed up and flexible as possible.

I hope this is of some help and please feel free to add your own tips so I can try them for myself.

Smudge
15-11-07, 19:59
please feel free to add your own tips so I can try them for myself.

1. Forget all the contortions / exercises
2. Invert

;) :D

Nah, being more serious, some useful tips. Good post :)

hickdive
15-11-07, 20:04
[QUOTE=Smudge;17913]
2. Invert
QUOTE]


Blasphemer!

gwilson
15-11-07, 21:13
1. Forget all the contortions / exercises
2. Invert

;) :D

Nah, being more serious, some useful tips. Good post :)


Burn the non believer :eek:

hickdive
15-11-07, 21:30
Burn the non believer :eek:

I believe it is a very short distance between diving inverts and this sort of thing;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/26/nsex126.xml

;)

gwilson
15-11-07, 21:44
I believe it is a very short distance between diving inverts and this sort of thing;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/26/nsex126.xml

;)

Thats probably as normal in ayr as sheep are in aberdeen :D

Lizardland
15-11-07, 23:56
I can't believe he got done for shagging his bike in his own room. I could understand if it had been Halfords...

Anyway... another tip, be careful on long dives because when you get cold and tired your flexibility and your grip gets reduced a lot, something to bear in mind at this time of year. If you can't reach the valve then you're just on a single.

Cheers,

Stuart

Smudge
16-11-07, 00:15
QUOTE=gwilson;17919]Burn the non believer :eek:[/QUOTE]

:D at last! I'm a Non believer and a blasphemer.. truly I must have "arrived" :D :D

As for the *West coaster* caught with a bicycle in a locked room... I was wondering about that, does that mean if a maid/cleaner/whoever knocks on a hotel room and a young lady is using an, ahem, more "conventional" sex toy then she'll be done for lewd conduct or whatever and not the intruder for interrupting?
Very strange... glad we're not like that over here ;)

Anyway, if all goes to plan I'll be on the Drager on Sunday not the inverts so you'll all have to burn me for a different sort of unbelieving :p ;) :D
SCR, a way to upset the anti RB crowd *and* half the CCR crowd, marvelous :D

Lizardland
16-11-07, 01:48
SCR, a way to upset the anti RB crowd *and* half the CCR crowd, marvelous :D

Now you're really going for it...

:D

gwilson
16-11-07, 03:09
Now you're really going for it...

:D

Aye no help for some

tomy2tums
16-11-07, 07:30
sounds perfectly sensible, if your too "burst" to get your hand over your head, then why not turn the cylinders upside down.

Then again, if your too "burst" to get your hand over your head, should you really be diving on twins?

How often are gas shutdown practiced? once a year? For something so critical I would expect every 3 or 4 hours under water?

Infact how often are rescue skills practiced? When training for qualification? once very year? or once a month? And I'm talking about proper rescue training.

Gogs
16-11-07, 09:46
QUOTE=gwilson;17919]
As for the *West coaster* caught with a bicycle in a locked room... I was wondering about that



:eek: Dont say you are going to get frisky with your motorbikes then??

Lizardland
16-11-07, 11:37
How often are gas shutdown practiced? once a year? For something so critical I would expect every 3 or 4 hours under water?

When I was diving on a twinset I'd do it every dive. I'd always check the valves at the start and do a shutdown drill at stops.

Sometimes I'd even do it whilst sitting on the boat... having put the set on without turning the valves on... :rolleyes:

Smudge
16-11-07, 18:22
Sometimes I'd even do it whilst sitting on the boat... having put the set on without turning the valves on... :rolleyes:

Yup, familiar with that drill :o
Got used to doing it with the RB and now keep putting on my twins then turning on the gas just before the buddy checks :) Only becomes a drama if you revert to a stab and single...!

hickdive
16-11-07, 18:54
I wouldn't grace what I do with the grand title of 'Shutdown Drill' but I'll usually reach back and turn each valve off and on at least once each dive.

I'm sure there are people who really do need to use inverts but my intent was to show that even someone as unfit and inflexible* as me, with no special allowances in their kit, might be able to reach their valves.

I was inspired by the recent YouTube video, posted on here, of things going wrong on a technical dive where the diver in question couldn't achieve a shutdown of a freeflowing reg. They had no chance of reaching their valves and, through trial and error experiments myself, I think I know why. Just looking at the video I could see the diver wasn't flat in the water and was tilting his/her head forward instead of back.

I'm not a technical diver, in fact I'm definitely what some people might in the past have called a 'stroke' (and probably still call me), but if I can help someone who is convinced they cannot reach their valves achieve that goal without resorting to the expense of remote isolators or all the gubbins that goes with inverting then I think I'll have done well.

*I certainly can't reach any of my valves whilst sitting on deck waiting to go in the water, so I double check them before I kit up.

gwilson
16-11-07, 19:03
I wouldn't grace what I do with the grand title of 'Shutdown Drill' but I'll usually reach back and turn each valve off and on at least once each dive.

I'm sure there are people who really do need to use inverts but my intent was to show that even someone as unfit and inflexible* as me, with no special allowances in their kit, might be able to reach their valves.

I was inspired by the recent YouTube video, posted on here, of things going wrong on a technical dive where the diver in question couldn't achieve a shutdown of a freeflowing reg. They had no chance of reaching their valves and, through trial and error experiments myself, I think I know why. Just looking at the video I could see the diver wasn't flat in the water and was tilting his/her head forward instead of back.

I'm not a technical diver, in fact I'm definitely what some people might in the past have called a 'stroke' (and probably still call me), but if I can help someone who is convinced they cannot reach their valves achieve that goal without resorting to the expense of remote isolators or all the gubbins that goes with inverting then I think I'll have done well.

*I certainly can't reach any of my valves whilst sitting on deck waiting to go in the water, so I double check them before I kit up.

Prop your tanks on the bench, and slide your body down in your harness. Should be able to reach all three valves quite easily that way.

I do this as part of every pre dive check just to make sure they are open, then once in the water i'll practice shutdowns every dive. My left shoulder isnt as flexible as my right so i'll also just reach back grab the left post and carry on finning just to try and instill some muscle memory.

I'll also switch between regs, practice using back up torch, ensure long hose can be deployed, flood and clear my mask and occasionally i'll swap to back up mask. Depends what sort of dive we are doing, if its a shallow drift with not much to see, then for me thats the ideal time to practice everything. Even down to writing on wet notes that im bored now :D

hickdive
16-11-07, 19:31
Even down to writing on wet notes that im bored now :D

A well-prepared diver who was "doing it right" would have the message 'I'm bored now' printed (with low acid ink on unbleached paper), laminated and clipped to a bungee in a pocket ready for instant deployment in a boredom situation.

What are you? Some kind of stroke?:p

Smudge
16-11-07, 22:56
A well-prepared diver who was "doing it right" would have the message 'I'm bored now' printed (with low acid ink on unbleached paper), laminated and clipped to a bungee in a pocket ready for instant deployment in a boredom situation.

What are you? Some kind of stroke?:p
pmsl
:D that almost caused a coffee / keyboard interface you rotter :D :D

iirc on the divetarts Bebo page there are pics of a couple of slates with "Diver hell" and "is this as good as it gets? cause this is ****" written on them :D
Both done at a well known Scottish dive site that is known within our merry band as a "guaranteed dive"... a description which will normally now put me right off! ;)


Smudge (not only a "stroke", worse than that he's an Unbeliever!! :cool: )

Cornish Diver
17-11-07, 09:58
Thats probably as normal in ayr as sheep are in aberdeen :D

or Cornwall :D

regthing
19-11-07, 00:21
I just got a new undersuit (Weezle extreme, very nice :D) my old one was slightly too short and it amazing how much more movement I have with a properly fitting undersuit. Even putting my fins on is MUCH easier.

Something else to consider.

Got the undersuit here! (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Weezle-Extreme-undersuit_W0QQitemZ270186901614QQihZ017QQcategoryZ 73994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Midton
19-11-07, 01:12
If anyone is in doubt as to the extent of their reach then try the following:

left arm, raise forwards from vertical (hand beside waist) to straight arm horizontal,

right arm bring the long way round, start backwards, come over the top, stop at horizontal.

Marvel at the 6 inches or more difference!

I'm a competitive swimmer and have very good shoulder flexibility; I have just performed the above exercise and found 3" difference. I would expect most people to find 6" or more.

So the solution is, extend your shoulder muscles!

Al.