View Full Version : guidance anyone please?
nicki.howard
19-09-07, 20:33
got packpay eventually, even tho got super taxed on it( not bitter honest :rolleyes: )
anyway, im looking for
BCD (ex small or small)
regs
wet suit hood 5mm (new only)
2 cylinders
weight belt
no idea how much this would cost tho!?
got the rest, done 35 dives in lotsa different kit so dont know wots best?
i dive to look at fish so not interested in gadgets but wud like lightest/easy use kit, new or used.
ideas???
Deep Blue Dive they would do you a deal on a one stop shop and they will give you a discount if you ask. Nice guys to deal with, I've bought lots of stuff off them. They have a nice new shop now as well.
kits a personal choice, no matter what you buy now you will wish you had bought something better once you get diving regular.
so you will sell it on again.
or is that just me? :)
you might be better buying some 2nd hand gear to get you started, try other peoples kit if you can (in the pool for safety reasons or very shallow open water).
look at how others have their kit configured & queerie why.
& then buy a custom divers wing with posiedon regs :D
Lizardland
19-09-07, 22:52
got packpay eventually, even tho got super taxed on it( not bitter honest :rolleyes: )
anyway, im looking for
BCD (ex small or small)
regs
wet suit hood 5mm (new only)
2 cylinders
weight belt
BCD - like Stewart says, try lots.
Regs - I think you can't go wrong with Apeks, they're cheap, extremely reliable, they breathe very well and you'll never feel like you've outgrown them. Scubapro are a good second choice but they aren't as cheap. Whatever you buy, buy DIN because you can always use an adaptor to fit a-clamp but it's a bit harder doing it the other way round.
Hood - whatever is comfy, there is a big range of fit
Cylinders - your height makes a big difference. If you're tall then dumpy cylinders will make your back hurt, if you're not then tall cylinders might feel unwieldy. I'd avoid 10's and go for either dumpy or normal 12's depending on fit. A lot of people forget that they are their buddy's emergency air supply, 10's can get a bit tight on reserves. 300bar 7's are a nice choice as well but generally I'd avoid 300bar cylinders.
Weight belt - if you can find them then invest in a freediving weightbelt. They are made of rubber instead of webbing, they won't slip or move when it's on and when you descend and your suit compresses then the belt shrinks with it so it's always tight. I bought mine in France but you can get them mail order from www.apnea.co.uk or www.spearo.co.uk
no idea how much this would cost tho!?
Don't ever tell a dive shop owner that :D
Cheers,
Stuart
Hood - whatever is comfy, there is a big range of fit
I have a few hoods, as they give them away with suits, etc. However the one I always wear is the one with holes in the top to let trapped air out - maybe I just have a funny shaped head (awaiting the abusive replies:rolleyes: ) - but, for a few pounds extra it seems well worth the money.
but generally I'd avoid 300bar cylinders.
I have a 300 bar and a 232 bar 12l cylinder - the 300 bar does supply a bit more air, but really it's just heavier. Admittedly the extra weight on the tank is offset by needing to carry less weight, but it seems heavier and you don't get as much extra air with 300bar compared to 232bar as you'd expect - apparently it's down to limitted compressability of the gases at higher pressure (?) - I don't mind having the 300 bar cylinder - it's okay and has some benefit - but I don't think I'd buy it again if starting from scratch - maybe, but probably not. :confused:
Regs - Whatever you buy, buy DIN because you can always use an adaptor to fit a-clamp but it's a bit harder doing it the other way round.
Yes, buy 300bar DIN as it's most flexible
(although whether you buy M25 or M26 thread is another matter and another thread!) PS everyone else is using M25 at the moment (unless someone says otherwise - is M26 even on sale yet? - sorry, that wasn't meant to get that complicated)
I am going to stick my neck out here and I'm sure plenty of old timers and club divers who invested money in the brand of bcd they will recommend are going to be in uproar...
Backplate and wing with webbing harness, that way its modular and you can move between single or twin cylinders as easy as pie and one size fits all whether your in a skin suit or dry suit with ten under layers.
Ready for controversy..
BCD's are IMHO a waste of space and are just old fashioned.
Get something like^ a frog Indigo single tank setup which then is modular and expandable to take a double tank wing should you decide to go down twin sevens or something.
Even then why bother buying two single 12's or tens when a dual tank wing setup with twin 300 bar sevens (Agree with Stewart re false benefit of 300 bar tanks due to not really getting 300 bar equivalent) will be great for shore and boat diving all around the UK.
It will give nice balance in the water and is a dream to dive.
Regs, although I don't like the way apeks look* they are great regs, the service kits are great and the regs are easy to look after.
So in short do not buy a bcd buy a wing and backplate, do not listen to the old farts that know no difference.
Eventually you'll want a pony if you dive singles so why bother, just dive twins from the start of owning your own kit, you've already done 30+ dives..
I have spent a fortune on kit recommended by others only to find it didn't suit me, I've had bcd's various wings and drysuits, lots of regs and Ive only been diving for just over two years, however its only really now at 200+ dives that Im actually being able to understand my choices properly and im sure some will say Im a slow learner but **** them, I've made mistakes, bought crap gear and evolving, like stewart said, you will change your gear...
^ frog only used as example as good quality and decent prices http://www.divingniknaks.com/proddetail.php?prod=T.030.001
*vain yes, I may be :p
Im gonna second Davie re wing and harness. I learnt with a zeagle ranger wing which i replaced when i went down the twins route even though its designed for twins or singles. I now dive a frog midnight wing and a halcyon single wing with the same harness and back plate with no adjustment required just use a single tank adaptor. in fact there is a halcyon stainless back plate and harness on Yorkshire divers for 100 pounds, and wings arnt that expensive.
Why a wing?
You get far better trim as the air is spread far more evenly than in a bcd, better trim in my opinion makes finning easier and therefore less energy is used and less gas.
I also don't see much point shelling out for a pony, when again twin 7's are a better option. If you need the extra gas from a pony dive twins
Im gonna second Davie re wing and harness. I learnt with a zeagle ranger wing which i replaced when i went down the twins route even though its designed for twins or singles. I now dive a frog midnight wing and a halcyon single wing with the same harness and back plate with no adjustment required just use a single tank adaptor. in fact there is a halcyon stainless back plate and harness on Yorkshire divers for 100 pounds, and wings arnt that expensive.
Why a wing?
You get far better trim as the air is spread far more evenly than in a bcd, better trim in my opinion makes finning easier and therefore less energy is used and less gas.
I also don't see much point shelling out for a pony, when again twin 7's are a better option. If you need the extra gas from a pony dive twins
Regs Apeks dont be conned into anything over a atx 50 as the internals are identical its just cosmetic differences your paying for. Primary on a long hose and back up bungied round your neck.
I've spent a fortune on kit and ive finally found what works for me others on here will definately disagree but thats life. Beg, borrow or steal and try as much as you can before parting with your cash.
Lizardland
20-09-07, 01:58
BCD's are IMHO a waste of space and are just old fashioned
Actually, backplates and wings are classic 80's retro. Go through a box set of Miami Vice and you'll probably find them in there in pastel colours.
I do agree, I ditched the stab jacket right after learning to dive. Most of my diving has since been in a backplate and wing. I've only ever used a stab on my O/W course and occasionally when hiring kit on holiday. I can't stand them, crap for buoyancy and everything in the wrong place. I don't like stuff around me, I like a clean setup. And what they said above about trim. I use a Dive Rite aluminium plate (about 40quid) and a Dive Rite BC Jnr (about 100quid) for singles. You'll get the set for 150quid.
I'd stick with two single 12's, I found twin 7/300's is a small rig for a two dive day. You never get a full fill so the margins get tight if your second dive is anything but shallow. Like I said, you might have enough air for you but you still have to consider having your buddy sharing that. I'm detecting this thread taking a DIR direction and I doubt if it would meet rockbottom/minimu gas.
Regs Apeks dont be conned into anything over a atx 50 as the internals are identical its just cosmetic differences your paying for. Actually I never go beyond Apeks 40's. They are also exactly the same as the 50's but with one minor difference. Also don't be conned into nitrox regs, another great waste of money.
Primary on a long hose and back up bungied round your neck.
The dark side! What he means is DIR: something along the lines of http://www.scu.edu.au/schools/esm/staff/pages/shartley/projects/gear/
It's the complete Acme one size fits all diving system. It gets slagged off a lot but I think you're pushed to find a better thought out way to dive. I've survived diving that way since 1995 so something is working as I'm a technical incompetent with a low attention span.
(although whether you buy M25 or M26 thread is another matter and another thread!) PS everyone else is using M25 at the moment (unless someone says otherwise - is M26 even on sale yet? - sorry, that wasn't meant to get that complicated)
Too complicated. You've got your threads mixed up. A standard DIN valve is a 5/8" pipe thread, a nitrox DIN valve is M26 metric thread. M25 refers to the neck thread i.e. the opening in the cylinder where the actual valve screws into. So you can have, as in Germany, a nitrox cylinder with a M25 valve with a M26 outlet. Confused yet? Thanks, Brussels...
Ex-school bcd small glide £100
reg depends on set-up ex-school serviced
apeks don't make the ATX range anymore would have to be XTX40 etc,.
but a mk17 395 would be cheaper
wetsuit would have to be waterproof(thats the brand name not what the wetsuit ddoes) lynux
most hoods have a vent at the top
I'd definitely go the BP/W route, as Stuart says you can get an ali BP for 40 quid, delivered;
http://godive.net/gdbcds.htm
You can get a complete set of webbing, retainers, buckles etc. for it from Woz for 37 quid
http://www.kitfondle.co.uk/backplates/index.htm
Which wing will depend on what cyls you get but careful shopping and planning should mean you get the whole set up for 200-250 pounds, around the cost of an ordinary BC. But you'll have an infinitely flexible system that can be adjusted to any diving you'll ever do. It will also definitely fit you if you're really small because you custom fit the harness to yourself rather than having to put up with a manufacturer's standard sizes.
For regs I'd go for Apeks or Scubapro. S'Pro are slightly more expensive but if you're travelling you might find them easier to get repaired if they break whilst on holiday. My preference is for Apeks DS4 first stages and TX40 seconds but you cant get TXs anymore so it'd have to be XTX40s. 173 quid.
If you were a complete beginner I'd say steer clear of twinsets as yet and just rent a cylinder. But you've got a fair few dives so I'd say try and borrow twin sevens or tens and see how you get on. If you've got a small physique you'll probably get two dives out of them without a refill so although you still be buying two cylinders, they'd come as a set with all the advantages that confers (assuming you get an isolator manifold). Can't really help you with a price for a twinset as there are so many variables.
If you're still not convinced about a twinset then buy two identical cylinders to use as singles.You can always buy manifolds/bands at a later date. Don't forget that if you go for a BP/W with a single cylinder you might need a single tank adapter and cam bands since most backplates are designed to take banded twins.
Cylinders are very price sensitive so it may be worthwhile giving one of the local dive shops the chance to 'price match' an internet price. Don't forget delivery charges on an internet cylinder purchase can be quite high so include that in your calculations. In addition, you might get lumbered with a 'naughty person fine' aka 'test' fee if you turn up at some dive shops with a completely empty but obviously internet purchased cylinder .
For weightbelts the most comfy is a shot belt but adding/removing weight from them can be a pain, so I'd suggest ordinary block weights. You don't want to buy twice so once you've sorted your weight just stick with the blocks. If you've got no hips then a weight harness might be a good idea to stop the weights sliding off otherwise I suggest a plain cam buckled webbing belt. Lumb Bros do a nice heavy duty stainless steel cam buckle and Woz will sell you it and the webbing for not much money. Don't forget weight retainers though.
Hoods are personal I can only tell you my experiences. Of the branded hoods I've used the Scubapro is the most comfy, lovely soft stretchy neoprene but it isn't the thickest or warmest for winter diving, that's my SeacSub Firedry, which is great, but only once you cut out the silly internal seal.
PS if your hood doesnt come with a vent hole in it - two seconds with a hammer and nail will sort it. BUT don't wear the hood whilst your doing that:p
Go see "what's in my box". (http://www.congeralley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=822)I still love it all, 8 yrs later ;)
Mr Flibble
20-09-07, 17:36
I'll sell you the wifes old BCD for a very good price as she has a new one. PM me if interested, just don't tell her. ;)
nicki.howard
23-09-07, 13:22
I'd definitely go the BP/W route, as Stuart says you can get an ali BP for 40 quid, delivered;
http://godive.net/gdbcds.htm
You can get a complete set of webbing, retainers, buckles etc. for it from Woz for 37 quid
http://www.kitfondle.co.uk/backplates/index.htm
Which wing will depend on what cyls you get but careful shopping and planning should mean you get the whole set up for 200-250 pounds, around the cost of an ordinary BC. But you'll have an infinitely flexible system that can be adjusted to any diving you'll ever do. It will also definitely fit you if you're really small because you custom fit the harness to yourself rather than having to put up with a manufacturer's standard sizes.
For regs I'd go for Apeks or Scubapro. S'Pro are slightly more expensive but if you're travelling you might find them easier to get repaired if they break whilst on holiday. My preference is for Apeks DS4 first stages and TX40 seconds but you cant get TXs anymore so it'd have to be XTX40s. 173 quid.
If you were a complete beginner I'd say steer clear of twinsets as yet and just rent a cylinder. But you've got a fair few dives so I'd say try and borrow twin sevens or tens and see how you get on. If you've got a small physique you'll probably get two dives out of them without a refill so although you still be buying two cylinders, they'd come as a set with all the advantages that confers (assuming you get an isolator manifold). Can't really help you with a price for a twinset as there are so many variables.
For weightbelts the most comfy is a shot belt but adding/removing weight from them can be a pain, so I'd suggest ordinary block weights. You don't want to buy twice so once you've sorted your weight just stick with the blocks. If you've got no hips then a weight harness might be a good idea to stop the weights sliding off otherwise I suggest a plain cam buckled webbing belt. Lumb Bros do a nice heavy duty stainless steel cam buckle and Woz will sell you it and the webbing for not much money. Don't forget weight retainers though.
Hoods are personal I can only tell you my experiences. Of the branded hoods I've used the Scubapro is the most comfy, lovely soft stretchy neoprene but it isn't the thickest or warmest for winter diving, that's my SeacSub Firedry, which is great, but only once you cut out the silly internal seal.
PS if your hood doesnt come with a vent hole in it - two seconds with a hammer and nail will sort it. BUT don't wear the hood whilst your doing that:p
so general concensus is a wing style bcd. im 5,3 about 8 stone so u said can fit smaller ppl so that would be good and versatile?
apeks regs tx40 or 50 seems popular
limited knowledge of cylinders but i learnt to dive using single 10Ltrs and struggled to use single 12 Ltrs bit too long and heavy
im unlikley to want to be using twinsets or pony's cz im a bit put off by the extra weight?
ive used block weights so far, bout 6kg in warm water with full 5 mm wetsuit, 26Lbs (prob too much) in uk with membrane drysuit and massively oversized undersuit!
Havnt sorted buoyancy with new neoprene dry suit cz only done few dives in it so far but tended to spread weight in bcd pockets too?!
block weight belt then
ill try remember not to do myself an injury with a hammer!
thankyou for all the help!!
just need to go source these things now and find sensible prices (if there is such a thing!)
limited knowledge of cylinders but i learnt to dive using single 10Ltrs and struggled to use single 12 Ltrs bit too long and heavy
im unlikley to want to be using twinsets or pony's cz im a bit put off by the extra weight?
Keep an open mind on the twin 7/300 bar (or 7/232 bar to make them a bit lighter) tanks. The extra weight in the tanks means you need less weight on your belt.
Same goes with a pony.
Plus you have something to fall back on with either option if something goes mamms up :eek:
Worth considering.
so general concensus is a wing style bcd. im 5,3 about 8 stone so u said can fit smaller ppl so that would be good and versatile?
apeks regs tx40 or 50 seems popular
A Wing, not a wing style BCD. There is a difference.
Harness, backplate & wing. single tens sound right for you although twin seven 300 bars would probably be better as it would give you the capacity for two shore dives with redundancy.
Roughly 3700 (270 x 14) litres of usable air in twin seven 300's leave 30 bar in a twin set leaving 3280. Two dives off one set 1640 litres per dive.
2320 usable litres in a single ten need to leave 50 bar so that's 1820 litres per dive.
Basically what I'm saying is that you get 180 litres of more usable air in single ten but you get the redundancy in twin sevens and better in water balance with the advantage that you can actually do one deeper longer dive off the set or actually you have the advantage of being able to enjoy the surface interval without having to swap cylinders over and its cheaper for one manifold air fill at the likes of aquatron than it is to get two single cylinders filled.
Going to twin seven / 300's makes sense :-)
Not sure who has a wing with twin sevens but at least give them a try before you rush off and buy something, surely CA can find somebody willing to let you try their set out in a pool..
Davie
Niki,
before you buy any cylinders, try to work out your air consumption first.
this way you will know what cylinders are best for you.
being 5'3", 8 stone & female, you would be inclined to use less air than most (in theory)
mainly because women seem to part with nothing, this includes compressed air. ;)
If you wanted to try twin 7's I have a set. If you wanted to try in the pool we meet at Greenock High School on a Monday night 7-9pm.
Or if you wanted to try in real water then anytime at all.
I prefer a 10 l cylinder on which I can do a 30 m non-deco dive of up to 50 minutes by which time I'm cool.
If my buddy needs my air then the dive ends.
I use a buddy stab which appears 'bomb proof'.
I use a Scubapro DV R190 on a MK17 first stage because they have a long service life and parts can be obtained readily any where in the world.