View Full Version : Pony tank advice
So I've decided im gonna get the tigullio T52 i also want to add apony bottle to my set up, i have another fisr stage i can use with this. My questions are should i get the 232 or 300 bar faber 3L tank? will this set up work ok with the T52? and can anyone give me some advice on weight distribution, clamps and how this may all effect my over all buoyancy? Any general inf is appreciated.
Thanks Gedan
ND Pony Clamp. And an extra 2kg on other side.
snorkel123
07-07-07, 13:01
I agree with shog69, northern diver pony clamp is very good.
I have my 232 bar pony on the left side of my tank and 2kg of lead in the right hand side back pocket of my BCD and feel perfectly balanced.
Brian
I use a 232 pony with the ND clamp on my Tiguillo, initially I removed a 1kg out of my trim pocket on the right side and left 1k in the left side, however now I dont bother, I dont feel it affects me that much, it does sit nice on the hover though, I have it higher than my 12l, just so I can reach the valve.
is that the ND quick release clamp?
either ND (quick release clamp) or metalsub clamps are without doubt the better options on the market.
ND ripped off the metalsub design with a small alteration & somehow got away with it.
metalsub is better engineered but the ND is cheaper & will do the job fine.
rather than add weight to the other side, buy a great big umbilical torch & mount the battery pack on the opposite side. :D
me personally, i would side sling it like a stage/deco bottle as IMHO its better balanced, easier to operate & you can pressurize it then switch it off again so it does not bleed during a dive without you knowing it.
a 232 bar 3L would get anyone up from 40m with no deco commitments.
if you were planning deco then you would use a bigger pony such as a 7L or 10L.
for info: i have twin 12's 232 bar mounted on a metalsub clamp to my wing (not BCD:) ) & they wont fall off. i hope :o
edit: safety tip...i used to feed my BCD from my pony & my suit from my main, so i had 2 sources of inflation
saw one of these in the 'flesh' at dive bunker, think they were £30 a piece if i remember right, looks like good quality.
mucho cheapo on fleaBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pony-Clamp-System-REVOLUTIONARY-NEW-DESIGN_W0QQitemZ250138457202QQihZ015QQcategoryZ160 57QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
is that the ND quick release clamp?
It sure is!
one last thing, i was going to have a first stage on each and run my octopus from the pony, is this the norm or are ther other solutions?
morning
I use a 300bar pony, the reason for a 300bar is that I want as much air as possible if I have to use it. The 300bar did not cost that much extra either. But it is quite oftern I do not get a complete 300bar fill, usually 260bar'ish.
I mount mine on my left, using the Northern Diver Clamp. With an extra kilo in the right back pocket of my BCD.
My main 1st stage supplies air to my dry suit, spg, primary reg (on a long hose). The excess of the long hose is bunged to the side of my main cylinder.
My pony supplies my BCD, spg and my secondary reg. The seconary reg is routed round the back and sits just under my chin using surgical hose. It sits quite close too, as if my buddy takes my primary there is not much movement to get my secondary.
I have removed my octopus as I felt there were just too many regs and hoses, there for more thigns to go wrong/catch/snag etc.
With the main cylinder suppling my dry suit and my pony suppliing my BCD, it gives me 2 separate sources of inflation.
The spg for my pony is routed through my left BCD arm and sits at my tummy (a thing I learned from ice diving)
If my buddy needs a reg, they will take the one out my mouth.
I carry 11kg in my weight belt and 1kg in my rear BCD pocket, where as I used to use 14kg in my belt. I was using 10kg in my bely, but I felt just a wee bit light, other have been like this to.
Only the first dive did I fell unbalanced until I got used to it.
I could post/send some photos if you like.
morning
I use a 300bar pony, the reason for a 300bar is that I want as much air as possible if I have to use it. The 300bar did not cost that much extra either. But it is quite oftern I do not get a complete 300bar fill, usually 260bar'ish.
I mount mine on my left, using the Northern Diver Clamp. With an extra kilo in the right back pocket of my BCD.
My main 1st stage supplies air to my dry suit, spg, primary reg (on a long hose). The excess of the long hose is bunged to the side of my main cylinder.
My pony supplies my BCD, spg and my secondary reg. The seconary reg is routed round the back and sits just under my chin using surgical hose. It sits quite close too, as if my buddy takes my primary there is not much movement to get my secondary.
I have removed my octopus as I felt there were just too many regs and hoses, there for more thigns to go wrong/catch/snag etc.
With the main cylinder suppling my dry suit and my pony suppliing my BCD, it gives me 2 separate sources of inflation.
The spg for my pony is routed through my left BCD arm and sits at my tummy (a thing I learned from ice diving)
If my buddy needs a reg, they will take the one out my mouth.
I carry 11kg in my weight belt and 1kg in my rear BCD pocket, where as I used to use 14kg in my belt. I was using 10kg in my bely, but I felt just a wee bit light, other have been like this to.
Only the first dive did I fell unbalanced until I got used to it.
I could post/send some photos if you like.
Thanks a lot for all the info- if it's no major hassle to post some pics that would be great
I still have my octopus on my main reg and have the third mouthpeice coming from my pony on a necklace.
I have 3 distinct colours:
Silver - main
Black - Pony
Yellow - Octo
Only been using for half a dozen dives or so, but been through 4 different configurations and the one I have at present seems to be just right.
I've been reading with interest that some of you use your pony to inflate your BC or your drysuit.
I can understand the redundancy it gives if diving a single. But my 2p worth is that a 3L isn't a vast amount of air so to be using it to add buoyancy seems a bit of a waste to me. Especially if you are on the 3rd dive of the day!
Surely run your BC and suit off your single tank. At the end of the day if something happens and you have no air available from your main tank (whether its OOA or shutdown due to a freeflow) you are going to want as much air to breathe as possible to get you back to the surface safe and able to dive again.
If the brown stuff does hit the fan and you have to switch to your pony you know it is full. If you are overweighted and can't start to surface by finning alone then you add air to your BC orally as trained. Best of both worlds: max amount of air and free reduntant bouyancy.
I'm with Scott on this one but can see the argument for having buoyancy redundancy. If using my pony, I fit the fenzy bottle to my Buddy BCD. I know that some of you will baulk at the thought of using such a "suicide bottle" but it does offer some back-up.
If you attach your BCD hose to the pony, you'll probably not need to use it at all anyway if drysuit diving as you can orally inflate your BCD before splashing & after surfacing.
Certainly, I wouldn't attach my drysuit feed to my pony. My buddy used to do that & ended up having to top up his pony after every trip. As T2T said, you really want to have your pony as full as possible. I sometimes wonder when I'm diving with buddies and their pony only has 100 bar if they realise just how long the supply would(n't) last at 30m. :eek:
Incidentally, I have a ND clamp also: been very happy with it. I bungee my pony reg around my neck. I also retain my octopus on my main regs. I had my pony supply leak a couple of times due to a faulty SPG swivel so wouldn't have liked to have to rely on that dwindling supply getting me to the surface if my buddy had needed my primary reg.
Just my thoughts... there are no hard & fast rules with this. As chris stated, you'll optimise your set-up yourself once you start using it. See what you're comfortable with & what makes it stress-free to deploy in an emergency. Oh... and do practice drills on a regular basis as with any piece of emergency kit.
Lizardland
09-07-07, 14:20
When I dive in a wetsuit so no backup buoyancy then I carry a small lift bag in a pocket (e.g. in case of tearing my wing). It's easy enough to use in an emergency for buoyancy control and doesn't make any additional demands on your air. For diving in a drysuit, I've got the same fittings on my drysuit and wing so the hoses are interchangeable and I keep a spare hose on my bailout bottles.
I don't like using backup bottles for anything other than emergency use. I think a 3L is on the edge of uselessness as it is and I wouldn't want to be knocking much off of it.
I'm not a fan of ponies, I've always preferred a twinset to a single & pony. There is an old saying that if you think you need a pony then what you need is a twinset. If you look at just how much air a pony will give you then that really holds true.
Cheers,
Stuart
For boat diving or "deeper" dives (>30m), then yeah, twins all the way.
But for shallower shore dives (e.g. Weasel Loch, Powmill) then a single + pony is far preferable IMHO.
Lizardland
09-07-07, 15:48
For boat diving or "deeper" dives (>30m), then yeah, twins all the way.
But for shallower shore dives (e.g. Weasel Loch, Powmill) then a single + pony is far preferable IMHO.
Each to their own. I find my twin 7's a lot easier for walking in and climbing over rocks, etc. They seem to sit with a better centre of gravity than a single does, doesn't wallow about the way a single does, especially with a pony strapped to the side.
Cheers,
Stuart
i suggested feeding a jacket from a pony, but i didnt explain how i used it.
feed the jacket with the hose, before entering the water, orally inflate the jacket.
the inflation from the pony is for emergency only.
back onthe surface, orally inflate again, your suit is already supporting you.
should you use any for what ever reason, then its easy to decant off a main cylinder/s to top it up before any dive.
this is how i used to use it anyway, cost me nothing for fills.
if your only source of inflation is your suit & you have a bad breach, are you confident you can still inflate your suit & stay buoyant on the surface without being inverted?
Each to their own. I find my twin 7's a lot easier for walking in and climbing over rocks, etc. They seem to sit with a better centre of gravity than a single does, doesn't wallow about the way a single does, especially with a pony strapped to the side.
Cheers,
Stuart
I love my twin 7s for shallow dives as well. Plenty of air, not too bulky and redundancy.
>30m on air is ok too. I'll need something bigger once I get to playing with gasses and multiple stops.
Yeah, you're both quite right: twin 7s would be just the ticket - in my closed-mindedness I was thinking in terms of twin 12s. :eek:
Regthing, what do you do if you're going on a boat for 2 dives and there isn't a compressor onboard? Do you have 2 sets of twin 7s?
I still do think that ponies have there place though (not just in a field). I've honestly never felt imbalanced when donning a single & pony but maybe I'm just a bit insensitive. :rolleyes: Getting back on topic, maybe my experiences can be attributed to some extend to the design of the ND clamp: very solid engagement with no wobbling about of the cylinder.
ponies do have their place without a doubt.
depending on your breathe rate (which will be heightened due to stress if its a real life situation), around 10 minutes of air at 30 meters could be provided.
so its going to get you to the surface just so long as your not hanging around taking pictures.
while every trainee will use a pony, not every diver will keep one, most develop their equipment at the rate of their diving exploits. some will dive with ponies to the end of their days but in reality, these divers are doing recreational 'sport' diving, most commonly associated with inland waters & sea-lochs at less than 30 meters depth.
the right tools for the right job is what's most important.
just out of curiosity,
has anyone actually attempted to orally inflate a wing/stabby at 30+ meters when they are negative...
or even better still, any one tried the same scenario but in free water?
not exactly like being in a swimming pool at 3 meters where you have a solid base to stop you.
nice wee drill exercise for pony users, not found in any dive manual...
next time your out, bob down to 30m, dump your suit air & switch to your pony to breathe from.
start orally inflating your stabby to bring you neutral.
if you have enough air to make it to the surface, let me know how you get on.
Ok, I have now actually ordered the T52, ND clamp and a 300 bar 3l pony - I got a great deal on net and sold some old gear on ebay to fund this. Thanks to everyone for all their advice, here's another possibilty with the setup;
Have your bcd inflator on the main cylinder, with your octo and a spare unattached inflator hose from the 1st stage of the pony. That way if you run out of air, you can change inflators (faster than orally inflating) and fill your bcd from the pony. Then there is no faffing about with oral inflation before and after every normal dive.
Has anyone tried this?
Regthing, what do you do if you're going on a boat for 2 dives and there isn't a compressor onboard? Do you have 2 sets of twin 7s?
I've only got my 7s at the moment. If we've got the RIB out to do a deep dive it's usually only one dive we do. If we do a 2nd it's normally a good bit shallower.
Either that or I take a 12 or 15 single from the shop for a 2nd dive
Most guys from the shop are on twin 7s so no ones really left feeling short changed.
However I've been toying with the idea of getting twin 12s for big days out. Both 12s and 7s would probably cover a decent weekend as well.
Have your bcd inflator on the main cylinder, with your octo and a spare unattached inflator hose from the 1st stage of the pony. That way if you run out of air, you can change inflators (faster than orally inflating) and fill your bcd from the pony.
in theory, a good idea.
but... & there is always a but...
what happens if the open end of the hose leaks & you don't notice?
what happens if it gets full of salt water week in week out & the connection fails to connect as its solid?
if it leaks, it inevitably means some water gets in, when the pressure is turned off, the salt water could get to the 1st stage & cause more damage.
an extra hose could be considered an extra failure point.
sorry, wasn't trying to fire bullets at you, might just seem like it
I have to agree with Stewart on the spare hose thing.
One of the last things you want to do in an OOA situation is try and find and connect a fiddly hose.
I've seen inflator hoses fail when trying to connect them (on land), especially hire ones that haven't necessarily been rinsed after every dive.
I wouldn't want that to happen to a hose connected to a pony at 30m.
was just a thought, is there such a thing like the equivalent male/female cap that could be left on the hose and the hose secured near the inflator. That way you could switch to your emergency air (and still breath!!) and then attach the secondary bcd inflator?
Got everything assembled at last, thanks for everyone's help. Ill let report back on how i get on.:)
Ahem, who got everything assembled??
thats a nasty cough there shmeeg :D
sorry, I just had to
http://www.busterlung.co.uk/cartoon%20strip%20036.jpg
great, not too far of the mark either! got it set up in my living room, just so i can look at it!
Before Gedan starts crying, does anybody know where you can get the din300 to A-clamp adaptor he needs for his new pony??:(
Have looked everywhere on the internet and cannot find one anywhere.
If the adapter you need is to convert a 300 bar cylinder to fit an A clamp reg you can't get one :(,A clamp's only rated to 232 bar and the cylinder won't have the dimple needed to locate the A clamp.If it's to convert a 300 bar din reg to A clamp you can.
Oh, bummer, is there anyway to convert the reg to a din300 - we don't want to shell out for a new one?:confused:
yeah you can convert them which reg do you have?
Its a scubapro, an MK20 (i think)
have a look here :D
http://www.simplyscuba.com/ProductDetails.aspx?StockID=11929
have a look here :D
http://www.simplyscuba.com/ProductDetails.aspx?StockID=11929
cheers you've made a sad man very happy!
No worries,happy but £40 lighter ;)
No worries,happy but £40 lighter ;)
Tell me about it, i keep saying to myself right this is the last piece of kit i'm buying, i don't need anything else- yeah right, got the breaking strain of a kitkat!
Tell me about it, i keep saying to myself right this is the last piece of kit i'm buying, i don't need anything else- yeah right, got the breaking strain of a kitkat!
you might want to consider a new torch too, a Salvo, like Alex and Grareths, it is only 5 months to Xmas.....